New League System in Ranked

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who am i again

Senior Member

01-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yegg View Post
I think you'll find that you can compare with other players just as easily as you could before. Someone who's in Gold Division I is ahead of someone who's in Gold Division III. Someone who has 75 LP in Gold Division I is closer to a promotion than someone who has 50 LP in Gold Division I.

On top of that, the system will attempt to put you in leagues with your friends, so you'll be able to compare against some of your friends very directly since you'll be on the same league ladder as them.
To my knowledge, the maximum number of friends you can have is 300? What if you have a scenario like this, 300 people who are friends, start to do placement matches and got the same results (not likely), what would the system do now? which friends would not be in the same league as their 299 friends?


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KJ Riot

Member

01-22-2013

so to all of us stuck in "elo hell" were gonna be placed with others in "elo hell" and be stuck with the same ppl never ranking up? This system is just confusing and makes no sence to me at all. I already have arouund 600 ranked games for preseason 3..all for nothing?


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Negrojefe

Senior Member

01-22-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jszdarkbolt122 View Post
So...Thats mean there are no elohell anymore?

ELO Hell is still there. Its just hidden from you. You will still be matched with roughly the same people than now, but you wont be able to see the real number that tells you who you are being matched with.

Instead, they are showing you a visual system that has no influence in the matchmaking system.

They are obscuring information from us.


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KJ Riot

Member

01-22-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Negrojefe View Post
ELO Hell is still there. Its just hidden from you. You will still be matched with roughly the same people than now, but you wont be able to see the real number that tells you who you are being matched with.

Instead, they are showing you a visual system that has no influence in the matchmaking system.

They are obscuring information from us.
this


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Ziramond

Member

01-22-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Negrojefe View Post
ELO Hell is still there. Its just hidden from you. You will still be matched with roughly the same people than now, but you wont be able to see the real number that tells you who you are being matched with.
As i'm sure everyone has already told you, ELO hell does not exist........as a certain number. There is no set amount of ELO you need to attain to get out of the group of people that you get matched with that will suddenly improve your teammates. This happens when you accept the level of player you are playing with and kind of dumb down your idea of the game to their level. You have to understand the way your "bad" teammates think, and plan your play accordingly. That is the only true way to escape ELO hell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Negrojefe View Post
Instead, they are showing you a visual system that has no influence in the matchmaking system.
While it is true, what they are showing you has no bearing on the people you will be matched with, however, the likely hood that you will get matched with someone that is division 5 silver tier, while you are a division 1 gold tier player, is astronomical. Your MMR rating will function now very similarly with the way it works in World of Warcraft arenas. However, the way you progress through the game is still very different from WoW.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Negrojefe View Post
They are obscuring information from us.
Again, much like WoW, your MMR value is hidden yes. But that's not the point. Riot is not out to screw you over and match you with people that have a way lower MMR than you just for kicks simply because you can't see it to verify it. This is not the information you need to be concerned with. If this is your main point behind why this is bad, i can honestly say i could see you being the one in pregame chat looking at peoples ELO and then ripping on them because they haven't gotten as high as you have. I'm not saying that is what you do, I'm just saying it wouldn't surprise me.

With that said, I'm also frustrated with this system because it really isn't anything better than what we had before. It's basically a "new skin" for the current ladder we have, and really does nothing to solve the problem that exists in matchmaking, which is the fact that your ELO, or League Points, or whatever they decide to call it, is still based solely on getting that "W". Simply put, if you win games you do well, if you lose games you suffer.


But what happens when you play well, and your team does extremely poorly and you end up losing the game regardless of how well you did personally?

This is a prime example of what ELO hell actually is. It's doing consistently well in your games and still losing due to the people that you get matched with in that particular game. Unfortunately there is only 1 way to solve this issue but Riot will probably never consider implementing it because they believe that it will lead to players not playing to win.


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Negrojefe

Senior Member

01-22-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziramond View Post
As i'm sure everyone has already told you, ELO hell does not exist........as a certain number. There is no set amount of ELO you need to attain to get out of the group of people that you get matched with that will suddenly improve your teammates. This happens when you accept the level of player you are playing with and kind of dumb down your idea of the game to their level. You have to understand the way your "bad" teammates think, and plan your play accordingly. That is the only true way to escape ELO hell.
I am not going to fall in the discussion of if elo hell exists or not, since its irrelevant.

The relevant part is, this change doesnt change A SINGLE BIT who you are being matched with. You will still be matched with the same people than you are now and that you would is the ELO systems continues.

The change is just visual, not in the matchmaking mechanic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziramond View Post
While it is true, what they are showing you has no bearing on the people you will be matched with, however, the likely hood that you will get matched with someone that is division 5 silver tier, while you are a division 1 gold tier player, is astronomical. Your MMR rating will function now very similarly with the way it works in World of Warcraft arenas. However, the way you progress through the game is still very different from WoW.
Again, nothing will change in the matchmaking system. And the probability of the case you provided might be low, but the probability of you being in gold tier division 5 and be matched with someone of silver division 5 or even bronze is not low. So divisions 5 will end up being what people call ELO hell now.
Nothing changes, they are making a huge announcement with a huge visual change with no core changes whatsoever.

I dont care how WoW matches Arenas, this is not WoW. I do recall hearing that in WoW you had a rating, you were matched by that rating and that only and you could see that rating. This is not the case here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziramond View Post
Again, much like WoW, your MMR value is hidden yes. But that's not the point. Riot is not out to screw you over and match you with people that have a way lower MMR than you just for kicks simply because you can't see it to verify it. This is not the information you need to be concerned with. If this is your main point behind why this is bad, i can honestly say i could see you being the one in pregame chat looking at peoples ELO and then ripping on them because they haven't gotten as high as you have. I'm not saying that is what you do, I'm just saying it wouldn't surprise me.
Again, i dont care how is it in WOW, i had the idea that in WoW people knew their rating and were all in a general ladder like ELO woks now.

But it is irrelevant, since this is not WoW.

And yes, Riot hiding our real matchmaking number IS THE POINT. Its a bad decision and i am seriously against it. I WANT to know my real matchmaking number, because it is that number the one that tells me if i really improved or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziramond View Post
With that said, I'm also frustrated with this system because it really isn't anything better than what we had before. It's basically a "new skin" for the current ladder we have, and really does nothing to solve the problem that exists in matchmaking, which is the fact that your ELO, or League Points, or whatever they decide to call it, is still based solely on getting that "W". Simply put, if you win games you do well, if you lose games you suffer.


But what happens when you play well, and your team does extremely poorly and you end up losing the game regardless of how well you did personally?

This is a prime example of what ELO hell actually is. It's doing consistently well in your games and still losing due to the people that you get matched with in that particular game. Unfortunately there is only 1 way to solve this issue but Riot will probably never consider implementing it because they believe that it will lead to players not playing to win.
The system is worse than what we have now, because it takes information away from us.

Information is power, and they are stealing information we now have and we will not have anymore from us.


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Kitachie

Junior Member

01-22-2013

please tell me this is a joke.


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Rockaqt

Senior Member

01-22-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yegg View Post
If you queue dodge during a Division or Promotion Series then the series will immediately be canceled and you'll have to re-qualify for the series by winning another game. It might sound harsh, but queue dodge rates in ranked are honestly too high right now, and we're not interested in having some players carefully micromanaging their series matchups at the expense of everyone else's queue times and failed lobbies.

I have like 3 things to say about this.

For one Im currently at 18xx right now depending on how much I play.

Well, for instance we get a troll by the name of X well he trolls and X says im feeding I don't care about you guys. Player A is in his Promotion series player A is like damn these games really freakin matter so player A has a choice dodge or sit there and be trolled by a feeder and loose 1 out of his 5 promotion games by a troll... This goes for any elo. I seriously do not like the idea of us non trolls that give a damn about ranked being penalized by dodging.

The main reason being I can say this without hesitation I WOULD NOT BE at 18xx elo right now If I hadn't dodged a LOAD of games because of trolls etc. That also goes for half of the people at 2xxx elo currently as well. Are you trying to penalize us non trolls in ranked?

Also one more reason, sometimes in que something may come up and we haven't started the game yet, so it's better for us to be able to dodge and not penalize our team by having to go afk. So we dodge instead. But if we don't dodge NBD it's just 1 out of our 5 promotion games... And screws our teammates and doesn't really bother us cause of Hey 1 out of 5 right? See where I'm coming from with this?

It's not a good idea to put this penalty on it. I still think that the 30 min then the 1 hour dodge timer are perfect. Because it literally makes it an actual Legit penalty to dodge this is honestly a bit overboard.


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ThePapa

Member

01-22-2013

Everyone saying elo hell does not exist and that u need to accept your teammates is just stupid and has not experienced the entire spectrum of games. There is a point between 1000 elo games and 1500 elo games where the percentage of games where u have someone who is be "trolling" aka buying all of 1 item and feeding mid repeatedly on purpose drops off massively. Thats because its much harder to get your account to the 1500 level so people that make it there tend to not ruin games or their acct, whereas when u start ranked you start at 1200 regardless of when in the season you're starting. NOT ROCKET SCIENCE


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Gandaallf

Member

01-22-2013

Sorry if you already answered this, but i still cant find the answer.
How exactly are these promotion series matches going to be organized? I mean, you gain 100LP and then your next 5 ranked games are your series matches (normal ranked games)? So once you are elligable to play in series matches, your next 5 games are these matches and you need to complete this in few weeks (or something)?