Shouldn't Vi's R proc her W?

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Fairness

Senior Member

01-21-2013

I love Vi so much, she's my favourite champion right now, so satisfying, responsive and ughhh no words!


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hartar

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Senior Member

01-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsylord View Post
Denting blows used to deal significantly more damage and stack to 4 back in development. The original intent was to create tension around getting that first proc. Q, AA, E gave three stacks; hard part was getting that 4th one.

So why did I end up switching to 3 stacks? Because while it was cool that Vi had to work for W proc #1, she could never really expect to get a 2nd proc. Q,AA, E, AA, E left her with no spells and only 1 stack of the passive. Getting those last 3 hits just wasn't feasible.

Had to ask myself which pattern would be better for Vi in the long run. 4 Stacks made the first proc difficult but the unlikeliness of getting a second proc encouraged a Talon like play pattern that was all about charging in, unloading the burst, and then running away because you had nothing to do until your spells were back up. 3 stacks made getting one proc easy, but it also encouraged Vi to commit harder to engagements and brawl for longer all for the chance of getting that second W.

So yeah, felt the second playstyle was closer to what Vi's character is about (getting in people's face and hitting them a ton) so I decided to go with 3 stacks.
Make sense, i mean, try to hit the same dude 8 times?Not that easy.


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Xyltin

Senior Member

01-22-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsylord View Post
Denting blows used to deal significantly more damage and stack to 4 back in development. The original intent was to create tension around getting that first proc. Q, AA, E gave three stacks; hard part was getting that 4th one.

So why did I end up switching to 3 stacks? Because while it was cool that Vi had to work for W proc #1, she could never really expect to get a 2nd proc. Q,AA, E, AA, E left her with no spells and only 1 stack of the passive. Getting those last 3 hits just wasn't feasible.

Had to ask myself which pattern would be better for Vi in the long run. 4 Stacks made the first proc difficult but the unlikeliness of getting a second proc encouraged a Talon like play pattern that was all about charging in, unloading the burst, and then running away because you had nothing to do until your spells were back up. 3 stacks made getting one proc easy, but it also encouraged Vi to commit harder to engagements and brawl for longer all for the chance of getting that second W.

So yeah, felt the second playstyle was closer to what Vi's character is about (getting in people's face and hitting them a ton) so I decided to go with 3 stacks.
What about her long CD's early game?
I understand that E has a decent CD early on for the charges, but Q and her passive?
Her passive is pretty weak early on compared to other survivability skills. Not cause 10% is low, but cause you have an 18 sec CD, no real control when to trigger it (you CS with a skill and then you can't trade for 18 sec).
Her Q is an easy to dodge skill as long as she is not already in melee range (what means you can't AA for 1.25 sec and you still have a chance to miss and you probably used your ult to get in range). It is easier to dodge than any skillshot cause you know when it is comming and compared to Varus Q, she goes all in with that skill and the range is lower. If the enemy is running away after a trade, and you want ot charge after him with Q, it is not only easy to read, but at the same time, Vi probaly used her 2 E stacks already in the trade and also her shield and the W buff will wear off very soon, so it makes no sense to charge after an enemy if you are not 100% sure you can make a kill (enemy has lower CDs and so he will be ready to trade into his favor now).

I understand that she is pretty fine currently except for all the bugs on her Q, E and R.
But a 2 sec lower CD on Q and her passive wouldn't give her much more power. It would increase her survivability a bit in certain situations and give her a bit more chances to use her Q. But in the end, both CDs will still be long enough that she can still get baited and still needs to look at her mana (what is more the limiting factor after some time).

And remember that Vi is currently better cause of the meta (max HP). She has good base dmg values late game and her shield scales very well with max HP. The all in ult as an engager and the survivability are making her strong. But HP will get nerfed soon. So will AD items (BC and BT nerfs on the PBE after LW and flask got nerfed).
All the stats she realies heavily on will be weaker. Someone like Olaf who is OP can take that hit, but for someone that has no real early game and is only fine in terms of strength it can be a really hard hit.


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gypsylord

Champion Designer

01-22-2013
3 of 4 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xyltin View Post
What about her long CD's early game?
I understand that E has a decent CD early on for the charges, but Q and her passive?
Her passive is pretty weak early on compared to other survivability skills. Not cause 10% is low, but cause you have an 18 sec CD, no real control when to trigger it (you CS with a skill and then you can't trade for 18 sec).
Her Q is an easy to dodge skill as long as she is not already in melee range (what means you can't AA for 1.25 sec and you still have a chance to miss and you probably used your ult to get in range). It is easier to dodge than any skillshot cause you know when it is comming and compared to Varus Q, she goes all in with that skill and the range is lower. If the enemy is running away after a trade, and you want ot charge after him with Q, it is not only easy to read, but at the same time, Vi probaly used her 2 E stacks already in the trade and also her shield and the W buff will wear off very soon, so it makes no sense to charge after an enemy if you are not 100% sure you can make a kill (enemy has lower CDs and so he will be ready to trade into his favor now).

I understand that she is pretty fine currently except for all the bugs on her Q, E and R.
But a 2 sec lower CD on Q and her passive wouldn't give her much more power. It would increase her survivability a bit in certain situations and give her a bit more chances to use her Q. But in the end, both CDs will still be long enough that she can still get baited and still needs to look at her mana (what is more the limiting factor after some time).

And remember that Vi is currently better cause of the meta (max HP). She has good base dmg values late game and her shield scales very well with max HP. The all in ult as an engager and the survivability are making her strong. But HP will get nerfed soon. So will AD (BC and BT nerfs on the PBE after LW and flask got nerfed).
All the stats she realies heavily on will be weaker. Someone like Olaf who is OP can take that hit, but for someone that has no real early game and is only fine in terms of strength it can be a really hard hit.
IF we were to buff Vi early CD's of Q and Passive would likely be the first places we'd look. Very unlikely that she'll need buffs in the near future though. IMO she SHOULD have a somewhat weak early game to compensate for how hard she snowballs if she manages to get her hands on a few items.


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Pyrite Illusion

Senior Member

01-22-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsylord View Post
IF we were to buff Vi early CD's of Q and Passive would likely be the first places we'd look. Very unlikely that she'll need buffs in the near future though. IMO she SHOULD have a somewhat weak early game to compensate for how hard she snowballs if she manages to get her hands on a few items.
Agreeded I play her a lot and really like her and I know how hard I can carry late game.


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Vulpyx

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Senior Member

01-22-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsylord View Post
IF we were to buff Vi early CD's of Q and Passive would likely be the first places we'd look. Very unlikely that she'll need buffs in the near future though. IMO she SHOULD have a somewhat weak early game to compensate for how hard she snowballs if she manages to get her hands on a few items.
Are there any plans on nerfing her in general? Im not saying she's overpowered, i think she's in a great spot. But i play her jungled in ranked and i get QQ every day about her clear time being too fast and overpowered.

What's riots status on her progress?


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Pulsefire Mundo

Member

01-22-2013

Gypsylord, can you look on her Q again? It still doesn't refund cooldown sometimes. Also, I feel that W proc is affected by Ninja Tabi, can't test it properly though.


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Xyltin

Senior Member

01-22-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsylord View Post
IF we were to buff Vi early CD's of Q and Passive would likely be the first places we'd look. Very unlikely that she'll need buffs in the near future though. IMO she SHOULD have a somewhat weak early game to compensate for how hard she snowballs if she manages to get her hands on a few items.
Yeah, I agree with that snowballing. I only wanted to make sure that Riot is actually thinking about possible buffs if the next nerfs or any other changes make her worse than she should be.


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Xyltin

Senior Member

01-22-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pulsefire Mundo View Post
Gypsylord, can you look on her Q again? It still doesn't refund cooldown sometimes. Also, I feel that W proc is affected by Ninja Tabi, can't test it properly though.
It is not only the Q that makes problems:
- Q refunds mana and CD randomly (Jacye E, Fiddles fear, Lux binding, ... all were able to to trigger the CD, but also Jayce E once did reset the CD and refund the mana; that's why i say random. couldn't figure out what it is that makes it reset or not).
- E sometimes forces you to AA (Vi will not responde to any other commands for around 1 second, it is not a lag. it only happens with Vi's E).
- E can prevent you from AA for a long time if you give the command to AA all the time (activate E, right click the enemy all the time and Vi sometimes starts her AA animation from the beginning again with every AA command, ending in a very long delayed AA).
- R doesn't do anything sometimes (maybe it was cause i stood right in Elise that one time). Elise didn't use her E but she was in spider form (she used it around 5 seconds later to escape). I used my ult and she didn't take dmg or got CCed. Ult still on CD and i heared at least the charge sound.

And that is all i have experienced in around 5 to 7 games.


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That Person

Senior Member

01-22-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by gypsylord View Post
IF we were to buff Vi early CD's of Q and Passive would likely be the first places we'd look. Very unlikely that she'll need buffs in the near future though. IMO she SHOULD have a somewhat weak early game to compensate for how hard she snowballs if she manages to get her hands on a few items.
not sure if this is working as intended but can you look at her passive?. at 2046hp i believe it said it would create a 10hp shield if i hit something with my abilities, whe i looked at it it only shielded for about 190hp. its nothing major, just something that bugs me when i know its off.