@Morello - Reason for Shaco nerfs?

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Eloquid

Senior Member

01-21-2013

My name's Riot, I fix things that aren't broken and vice versa.

Whoever complained about Shaco????? People are screaming for a year about obvious op champs that are not being touched and probably won't in forseeable future.


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Kamaro

Senior Member

01-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by EnümaElish View Post
Just copy pasta this on every shaco thread:

His ganks are being nerfed
His teamfight is being buffed

Thats what the changes do and its justified.
How does removing his slow and crippling his only potential initiating move make him better at teamfights?


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Drinniol

Senior Member

01-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by EnümaElish View Post
Just copy pasta this on every shaco thread:

His ganks are being nerfed
His teamfight is being buffed

Thats what the changes do and its justified.
Yes, his teamfighting was truly buffed. Here is a list of all the amazing teamfight buffs Shaco is receiving:


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Vinny828

Senior Member

01-21-2013

bump


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mainomai

Senior Member

01-21-2013

Nerfing his Q and his E drastically? Why?

Why are you punishing players who have put in the time and effort to become skilled with a champion with a high skill cap...who is out classed by so many other face roll champions? You do realize the whole point of being a shaco player is the REWARDING experience of MASTERING a difficult nonviable champ instead of just key mashing with one of your many ez mode champs. Why punish these type of players in your community?

The people that have put in the time and effort to become so good with shaco they snowball will still snowball. So what's your real plan here? Is this only the beginning of the shaco nerfs? You'll never find a good balance for him if you try to go after the people who have spent months learning every facet of his kit and the exact timing and distances of his moves in all areas of the map, how to build him perfectly for every situation and counter. You're trying to indirectly nerf dedicated skilled players, not the champion and it seems wrong. If you keep at this method he will end up broken in the garbage with urgot where he's never played.

TLDR; Riot is punishing skilled dedicated players, people who don't want ez mode face roll champs.


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IS18595c50fc785a73f8bbb

Senior Member

01-21-2013

https://twitter.com/RiotMorello/stat...80387362037760

Shaco nerf not going through. Let us all lower out pitchforks and rejoice in peace <3


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Drinniol

Senior Member

01-21-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by FredFrost View Post
https://twitter.com/RiotMorello/stat...80387362037760

Shaco nerf not going through. Let us all lower out pitchforks and rejoice in peace <3
And there was much rejoicing.

Still, why even nerf Q? Whatever, it's manageable.


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mainomai

Senior Member

01-21-2013

SO 100 less on his Q, how will this effect his wall hopping ability?

Im relieved his E is staying but I really don't get ANY changes to him. If anything he's underpowered and only good in the hands of a highly skilled shaco player who gets fed.....otherwise its 4v5.


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IS18595c50fc785a73f8bbb

Senior Member

01-21-2013

It will be worse in the fact that you can't pass the same walls maybe and some gank routes is getting trickier.

However I see some potential here as well, as you have to get really close to a wall before Qing over, which means that the mindgames can be even greater.


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Statikk

Live Balance Designer

01-21-2013
1 of 1 Riot Posts

Like to just chime in to help give some insight on the topic.

Firstly, League of Legends is an iterative process. We are constantly testing different implementations, getting feedback, analyzing the results, and re-continuing the cycle.

This is never more apparent and true with changes that go to the PBE. Anything that shows up on there: #1 may be false or incomplete (due to faulty data mining) and #2 is very much subject to change. As I always say, I would never trust unofficial sources to be anywhere near 100% accurate to our actual patch. For these reasons, the PBE and what eventually goes to Live are very rarely the same.

As far as actually addressing Shaco, I think it's undeniable that the Season 3 changes to the jungle (namely Boxes being an effective way of mitigating damage taken) have made him more effective. One of the largest issues we've always had with Shaco's design is his lack of counterplay in early game situations. Even at the very early points in the game, Shaco has an unrivaled tool set to gank with (a blink, stealth, and multiple forms of CC on top of the typical Red Lizard buff). When Shaco gets ahead, there is very little counterplay his victim has other than to hope Flash is up and they are near a turret (in fact when gank victims turn to attempt to retreat without a blink or dash, they are actually putting themselves at a further disadvantage due to Backstab).

Our goals with these changes are simply to reduce his early gank effectiveness. Obviously the first iteration (the one you guys saw on PBE) where we completely ripped his passive slow was a bit extreme. Even before the Shaco outcry posts had begun, the internal version of the nerf was already changed to be a reduction to Two-Shiv Poison's slow at early ranks (still scales up to 30% at rank 5). As far as the Deceive range nerf goes, our team is pretty confident that this is reasonable as it makes his Deceive range equal to Flash which means players playing against Deceive now only have to worry about the addition of stealth since any jump Shaco can now do, any champion could do the same by using Flash offensively. To be clear, these changes are in no way aimed at balancing the viability of Shaco at a tournament level, they are more aimed at a philosophical level of design addressing how players should be able to respond to playing against Shaco.

Anyway, I'm always glad you guys are constantly passionate about the changes that we're making, it gives us feedback and keeps us in check...but the majority of the PBE overreaction feels unneeded and melodramatic. I much prefer threads like this which have a much more open-minded view and are looking for insight into why a decision is being made and perhaps offer alternative suggestions, solutions, or counterpoints as to why this may or may not be a good decision.