Looking for Sejuani Feedback

First Riot Post
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FiM DitzyDoo

Member

01-20-2013

Just going to thro this in:
Her W, even without cdr, has a downtime of like 2-3 sec.
Maybe make it a toggle alltogether?


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Natneyi

Senior Member

01-20-2013

Dunno if I'm too late here, but these are my thoughts re: Sejuani
Northern Winds seems like it should apply Frost.
It still seems weird that she wields a flail--and does all magic attacks
She's mounted, it feels like that should confer some sort of speed buff
I certainly think at least one skin should keep the bikini but in general, the amount she's wearing makes no sense for the climate she comes from.

Fairly standard stuff, I guess.


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Meddler

Lead Champion Designer

01-20-2013
7 of 38 Riot Posts

Hey folks, first update on progress with Sejuani here. Since the original post I've gathered a bunch of feedback, particularly through threads like this, and tried out various changes in internal playtests, some of which have tested well, some of which haven't and some of which are still works in progress. The goal of these changes is to try and maintain what people like about Sejuani while adding a bit more perceived impact/readability to her abilities, increasing her opportunities for big plays (and, if needed to balance that, adding a bit more counterplay in exchange) and investigating a bit of increased use of her boar/flail as thematic elements if appropriate.

Examples of things that have already tested well and are likely to be part of her rework (generally low risk quality of life improvements):

1. Changing the mark for Permafrost from a very weak slow to a non CC debuff. This allows allows the mark's duration to be extended to a longer value than would be appropriate for a slow and stops the mark from having a reduced duration against targets with CC.

2. A clearer particle for that mark so it's really clear at any point which enemies will be affected by Permafrost's activation.

3. Slightly increased responsiveness on Artic Assualt when it comes to detecting collisions with enemies and calculating travel through terrain, courtesy of some tech improvements since her development.


Examples of things still in testing (being experimented with to see if they work, not guaranteed to happen):

1. Base stat tweaks

2. Adding a bit of tankiness somewhere on the kit to better match Sejuani's thematics (tough warrior on a giant boar) and reduce the amount of damage she takes early on.

3. Changes to Artic Assault's behaviour on hitting an enemy champion (e.g. stronger CC than just a slow)

4. Whether Northern Winds should apply the mark for Permafrost and then have its gameplay tweaked (since the current 'bonus damage against Frosted targets' interaction would then be irrelevant)

5. Increasing risk of play slightly and in exchange increasing reward for good play to match.


The next step design side is simply more testing and iteration, both on the examples listed above and some other stuff. Then, once we've got a set of changes we're happy with, we'll refine those, balance them and, where needed then work with our art department on new visual/audio elements (e.g. the clearer mark for Permafost as above). As previously mentioned there's also some interest internally in tweaking Sejuani's appearance a bit. That's not my area of expertise so I'll try and catch IronStylus at some point and see if there's anything concrete about that can be passed on about that. As far as timeframe for all of this goes there's still a fair while to go - I expect we'll see at least one other rework out before Sejuani's. Stuff is progressing though and I'll update again in a while once we've got things more locked down design side.


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Super Explosion

Senior Member

01-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
2. A clearer particle for that mark so it's really clear at any point which enemies will be affected by Permafrost's activation.
Forcing Permafrost to require a pre-existing mark before being able to be cast is pretty un-fun.

Generates a very poor worst-case scenario of having a dead skill in the kit.

Edit: If you really want a mark and trigger system, you may wish to have E apply the mark and a first-order effect, which may then be detonated her other abilities.

Or use what is effectively a dual-marking system, where if a target is hit by two of Sejuani's abilities, they receive a further effect.

Edit2: Obviously I don't mean keep Permafrost the same as it is now-- rework it so it doesn't need a mark, but can potentially be boosted by one.


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8 Bit Astronaut

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Senior Member

01-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Explosion View Post
Forcing Permafrost to require a pre-existing mark before being able to be cast is pretty un-fun.

Generates a very poor worst-case scenario of having a dead skill in the kit.
It would be cool if they made Sejuani's Permafrost like pre-rework Twitch's Debilitating Poison. It slows all enemies in an area, and if you apply the mark it will bolster the slow


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Fracture Eon

Senior Member

01-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Explosion View Post
Forcing Permafrost to require a pre-existing mark before being able to cast it is pretty un-fun.
... You're seriously suggesting that Riot remove the casting requirement for a 1000 range self-cast AOE with a 70% slow.

Sejuani may be underpowered, but turning her into GOD MODE is not what anyone wants.


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Super Explosion

Senior Member

01-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoGo SpaceMan View Post
It would be cool if they made Sejuani's Permafrost like pre-rework Twitch's Debilitating Poison. It slows all enemies in an area, and if you apply the mark it will bolster the slow
Potentially.

They really want to avoid a binary trap--where you immediately and thoughtlessly hit E after putting Frost on someone.

You may as well not have it as a skill if there's not much gameplay decision to it.


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Super Explosion

Senior Member

01-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fracture Eon View Post
... You're seriously suggesting that Riot remove the casting requirement for a 1000 range self-cast AOE.

Sejuani may be underpowered, but that is NOT the way to fix her.
You seem to have assumed that I proposed keeping the skill identical to how it is now, but allowing free cast-- that is not the case.

I simply indicated that having a skill that can only be activated in the presence of a mark provides a very unsatisfying worst case of having an unusable skill.

It needs to be usable in some capacity without a mark.


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Great Iniquity

Senior Member

01-20-2013

I am concerned for the removal of the "slow" on her passive in her auto attacks.

Part of the reason I enjoy using senj currently over other tanky junglers is not only do I make a great tank late game (initiate, etc) but I also can level 2 gank really effectively, espically if I start at redbuff. The 10% innate slow plus 1 stack on redbuff makes it so that I can get my Q at level 2 over E and not concern myself about lack of CC initally. It is the same as having lee sins E at level 2, whereas if you removed this passive I would have issues with sticking power unless I got E (in which case I have no gap closer and its fruitless anyway).

Other champions, noc, WW, Fid, etc generally do not have very potent lvl 2 ganks unless you sacarfice jungle clearing speed for ganking potential (e.g. fear over AS on Noc). I really enjoy the fact that I dont have to make this decision on senjuani and that she serves a practical spot in many team compositions.

tl;dr: please keep the inherent slow in her auto attack, change other stuffs :s.


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Fracture Eon

Senior Member

01-20-2013

Okay, at least you recognize that leaving the skill as-is would be broke as hell.