Shyvana's State in Season 3

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IonDragonX

Senior Member

01-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by YellowSpadeCA View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mogs01gt View Post
Giver her ap scaling abilities that all do magic dmg and that could be an easy quick fix.
... Strangely enough, I never thought of that. Then again, it doesn't feel to fit her theme. I know she's part dragon, but that's the thing. She's only partly magical, so thematically it makes sense for her to do damage from both spectrums. Although agreed that it would make her damage skyrocket, that's not the problem.
Just FYI, Her W was once an AP scaling ability. Riot thought that too many people were playing her as an AP bruiser (which she was) so they switched it to AD instead.


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IonDragonX

Senior Member

01-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by KitStylus View Post
Shyvana needs some love, as well as the S3 Jungle
Just for fun, I'm going to write a QoL here:

Twin Bite - keep the same.

Burnout - currently :
Magic Damage per Sec: 25 / 40 / 55 / 70 / 85 (+ 20% Bonus AD)
Max Damage: 175 / 280 / 385 / 490 / 595 (+ 140% Bonus AD)
Burnout - improved :
Magic Damage per Sec: 25 / 40 / 55 / 70 / 85 (+ 20% Bonus AD) (+ 12% Bonus AP)
Max Damage: 175 / 280 / 385 / 490 / 595 (+ 140% Bonus AD) (+84% Bonus AP)
(just a small buff for AP users. makes Trinity Force even better and Rageblade becomes a possibility)

Flame Breath - additionally applies on hit effects and reveals the target while the debuff is active.
(if Ezreal and GP can use a Frozen Mallet at range, then why not Shyvana? This might solve all of her relevant "no CC" problems)

Dragon's Descent :
- additionally grants a range of 175 while in dragon form.
(similar to how Riven and Cho'Gath change ranges with their ults. remember that this will count for the Q as well)
- Shyvana breaks CC when she activates this and ignores new CC until after she lands
(no more snares/stuns in mid-flight and puts her split push ability into god levels)


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PerfidiousAlbion

Senior Member

01-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by IonDragonX View Post
Just for fun, I'm going to write a QoL here:

Twin Bite - keep the same.

Burnout - currently :
Magic Damage per Sec: 25 / 40 / 55 / 70 / 85 (+ 20% Bonus AD)
Max Damage: 175 / 280 / 385 / 490 / 595 (+ 140% Bonus AD)
Burnout - improved :
Magic Damage per Sec: 25 / 40 / 55 / 70 / 85 (+ 20% Bonus AD) (+ 12% Bonus AP)
Max Damage: 175 / 280 / 385 / 490 / 595 (+ 140% Bonus AD) (+84% Bonus AP)
(just a small buff for AP users. makes Trinity Force even better and Rageblade becomes a possibility)

Flame Breath - additionally applies on hit effects and reveals the target while the debuff is active.
(if Ezreal and GP can use a Frozen Mallet at range, then why not Shyvana? This might solve all of her relevant "no CC" problems)

Dragon's Descent :
- additionally grants a range of 175 while in dragon form.
(similar to how Riven and Cho'Gath change ranges with their ults. remember that this will count for the Q as well)
- Shyvana breaks CC when she activates this and ignores new CC until after she lands
(no more snares/stuns in mid-flight and puts her split push ability into god levels)
I do like the idea of Shyvanna being a viable hybrid champion, and I think the E change is elegant and helps with her kitability issues without being an overly strong buff. Similarly the increased range on her AA during her ult thematically makes a lot of sense and is consistent with similar abilities.

The CC immunity clause on her Ult is way overboard though. Her ult provides a sizable durability boost, a gap closer, a knockback, and adds a whole lot of AoE to her kit. It would be, in the majority of situations, a much stronger version of Olaf's ult (potentially lower cooldown thanks to on-hit fury generation, triple the duration and duration increases with AAs, provides an AoE nuke/gapcloser/knockback, and adding AoE onto all her abilities is far stronger than the armor pen and, while active, stronger durability buff). Otherwise, good ideas.


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n1ightwa1ker

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Senior Member

01-20-2013

I played her since the day she has released and she was an amazing champ and my scores with her went so high, most of the games i had 2:1 kills ratio and even better ratio
In season 3 she feels so underpowered allmost every bruiser top beat her now
She needs a buff soon


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copperpoint

Senior Member

01-20-2013

@PerfidiousAlbion:
You might be right, that we overdramatize her current situation a bit. Which might come from her very frustrating playstile. No wonder without cc or gapcloser, you will have to watch a lot of champs simply walk away, leaving you unable to kill them off.

A cc removing effect on her W is actually one of my favorite ideas to buff her. It wouldnt change much on her situation except that you had a way better chance to escape. (especially when the ulti is down)
If chasing and hit by a cc you wouldnt catch up to him anyway, with or without this effect.

About the e:
260 when maxed out. Well, yes it is a certain amount of dmg, although it surely doesnt feel like that ingame. And you simply cant push it any further.

I dunno, she really feels lacky, when I look over other kits,
Jayce: Stun, knockback, aoe range poke, slow, speed, HP%dmg, up to 25% !! armor AND magic shred, 3 hits on max ats. .... I really dont know why he has so much, while on shyvana only one more of those would make her op.
I want her to.... not give me such a hard time, If you understand what I mean. ^^

-----
About the new ideas:
AP scaling. That would be kinda neat, making some use of Ability power.
Trinity force is still a wonky item on her- correct me if I am wrong, but the sheen effect doesnt work on her Q in dragon form.

E for on hit effects: - Aint gonna happen.
For a simple reason - the aoe version in dragon form. Imagine what you would do with a hydra.
Jump in, Flamebreath +on hit hydra, Cleave + 2x on hit hydra. (not talking about wits end, blade of the ruined king or other on hits)
On hit is totally viable in human form, but it gets out of hand really easily when in dragon shape.
At least thats what I think, if Riot thinks otherwise I will gladly take it.


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Foxbyte

Senior Member

01-20-2013

Unfortunately I don't think Shyvana is very high on Riot's priority list at the moment, thanks to the fact that they have a lot of other champions who need tweaks/reworks first (Darius comes to mind - and don't flame me for this, Riot has said he's not what they wanted him to be).

That said, I really love Shyvana and I really do hope they take a look at her before too long. All the changes they made to the jungle in S3 were, for all intents and purposes, direct nerfs to her.


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Estred Shantile

Senior Member

01-20-2013

Shyvana was even Spotlighted as a Top Laner yet she has no sustain, gap-close or ranged Harass and of course no CC all are things Top Laners need and usually have. So she got shunted to the jungle where her AE damage let her become a counter-jungler. The S3 jungle has crippled shyv, her once strong clear times are now mediocre at best.

Junlge: Medium
Lane: Weak
Gank: Weak
Sustain: Nonexistent

Everything in her kit is dependent upon Items: sure she could scale to late game but I don't want to feel like my team is 4v5 till 25, and that is what I get from Shyvana atm and I love her.

She has nothing going for her but move speed and an apply-hit effects even which is weak because of the CD she can't build it. Her kit needs a rework. I love the movement and auto-augments but she NEEDS changes her kit needs to synergise with itself like Jayce imo (3 moves in Human form and 3 NEW moves in Dragon Form that offer more AE-Damage output) Imo in Dragonform she should be both offensively and defensivly buffed.

Dragon Shyvana should be feared just as much as Ult-Nasus or Renekton.. you don't mess with them while they are in their Ult 1v1 and that is what Shyvana needs. She needs a gap-closer even if it's tied to Fireball (a skillshot).


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Axhliay

Senior Member

01-20-2013

I feel that she should just be made an AP bruiser. Its just the simple solution to all of her problems. Give her a decent AP ratio on the W while keeping the AD ratio.

Because to be honest, In teamfights, Rylais is a much better slowing options. Also, there are alot of AP items that give CDR, and maybe if burnout's CD was reduced by 1 second per level, 8 seconds at rank 5, she could keep it up all of the time.


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iRigel

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Member

01-20-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfynsong View Post
Unfortunately I don't think Shyvana is very high on Riot's priority list at the moment, thanks to the fact that they have a lot of other champions who need tweaks/reworks first (Darius comes to mind - and don't flame me for this, Riot has said he's not what they wanted him to be).

That said, I really love Shyvana and I really do hope they take a look at her before too long. All the changes they made to the jungle in S3 were, for all intents and purposes, direct nerfs to her.
That's so true, and I agree with you Shyvanas is not a priority for Riot at the moment, they already have TONS of things to fix since of season 3 changes, I just hope they take a look on her, "Shyvanas, The Half-Dragon" and don't left her into the forgotten as other champ that everyone knows their names.

Why she needs a review?

Even though, they didn't touch her:

- Those changes on the jungle nerfed her cleaning speed that was the main reason which you would pick her instead of a Nocturne or a Lee Sin as jungler, they buffed the HP of big monster and nerfed the HP of small ones that's mean that Aoe Spell (Burnout) aren't as effective for cleaning the jungler as before.

- These new items that apparently helps jungler on their cleaning job doesn't fit with her kit, Shyvanas used Aoe spells to clean the jungle quickly, more than basic attacks, Hunter's Machete just dosen't fits with her as much as I would fits with ANY other jungler like Nocturne, Lee Sin, Udyr and so on.

- Shyvanas season 3 build is exactly the same as in season 2 because she lack of synergy with EVERY single new item they've made, you just can't build her a Black Cleaver and pretend you're a Riven, it just does not work like that, because she does hybrid damage, more magical than physical.

As I've posted before I LOVE Shyvanas, she was my first 6300 IP champ I ever bought and she used to be my favorite jungler since I own her, Im not asking for a heavy buff, just want Riot to take a look on her because she's a very special jungler since her ganks aren't as succesful and another champs, she needs something to compensate it and her cleaning speed was what she used to be on season 2 and that's impossible now.


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chezwickcheese

Senior Member

01-20-2013

She's kinda trash. It's a shame though because her kit is fun but not effective. And with transferring MORE health into the big jungle creeps, she'll fade further into the distance. Maybe maxing Q first will be the way to go. She needs a rework along with Udyr