Do we want to option to Vote Kick Pregame in Ranked Matches ?

Yes 2,319 81.86%
No 514 18.14%
Voters: 2833. You may not vote on this poll

[ HMMM ] Season 3 tiers and dodging - Give us vote kick pregame

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TheCøøkieMonster

Senior Member

01-16-2013

Yegg has now told us something quite interesting...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yegg View Post
If you queue dodge during a Division or Promotion Series then the series will immediately be canceled and you'll have to re-qualify for the series by winning another game. It might sound harsh, but queue dodge rates in ranked are honestly too high right now, and we're not interested in having some players carefully micromanaging their series matchups at the expense of everyone else's queue times and failed lobbies.
So apparently if we dodge we lose our places in qualifying and I would assume we also have the lockout timer in place as well?

-------------------------------------------

Due to this high penalty of dodging.... I must make this an official poll now for all Leaguers who are serious about ranked, be it their main or an alt account.


PLEASE GIVE US VOTE KICK PREGAME, TO GET RID OF TROLLS ! ! !


This will allow us to not have to dodge, lower the dodge rate that you say are too high right now, and stop the senseless drama. Yes this will mean trolls will usually wait until in game to troll, but that it will still dramaticly decrease the amount of trolling and dodging that takes place right now.








Lets shoot for 250,000 total for a forced change In game poll would break 2 million Yes

50 votes - we goin now
100 votes - Keep spreading word and commenting your concerns
150 votes - Word B Spreadin
200 votes - Rockin so far keep up the votes and spread word
250 votes - Good comments guys, keep it up girls
300 votes - WOOT we are rollin now
350 votes - Updated the 2nd post with some good comments
400 votes - Added a cancel button idea that someone gave
450 votes - Keep up the awesome comments guys...some good ones just came in
500 votes - AWESOME JOB- Spread word for or against...any vote is good for the community <---
550 votes - Choo
600 votes - Choo
650 votes - Vote Kick Option Will ROCK the Trolls... Keep voting and spreading the word!
700 votes - Doing it Gangnam style ! Keep Spreading word yall. Great Debates goin on.
750 votes - We are at 81.89% yes on this, and some amazing comments!
800 votes - Great job everyone. Keep spreading the link around !
850 votes - Rock on! Thanks Everyone. We are almost halfway to the 2000
900 votes - ZMG Over 900 ! ! ! hmm wait that's wrong... Keep posting, voting and spreading word yall!
950 votes - RAWR ! ! ! one more level of 50
1000 votes - GREAT JOB yall... lets keep spreading word...link the thread page in lobbies and game and get people voting and commenting!
1100 VOTES - Still goin strong and waiting on the Yegg
1200 votes - Do a little dance....spread the good ol word... rock the vote !
1300 votes - Got the streams spreading word now and Diamonds coming in to vote yes and no
1400 votes - with a camel bump !
1500 votes - And we are 1500 and RED's scared to touch this thread becasue they know we are right
1600 votes - Vday surprise ! Hope everyone had fun
1700 votes - ROCKIN IT and still 82%...clearly 4/5 of the community so far wants this...Suggest in game survey upon login to get full LOL community opinion
1800 votes - Some trollin goin on lately, guess the trolls hear about this and are mad
1900 votes - So we got through to people now and things are goin strong ! ! !!
2000 votes - Reds are looking...whose gonna tackle this first? Keep spreading the word !
2100 votes - Bump'n Ginding our way up
2200 votes - Notice Lyte wont reply here but he has taken notice and posted about the problem

Its working now !

Lytes thread http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...20746&page=272

Keepin on


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TheCøøkieMonster

Senior Member

01-16-2013

KEY POSTS THUS FAR THAT EXPLAIN

Quote:
Originally Posted by lbgsloan View Post
Even if this isn't the best idea, SOMETHING is going to have to be done to curb the obvious trolling opportunities the tier-up matches offer. The amount of rage and reports during these matches are going to quadruple as well. The only way this can work is if the promotion games only involve players that are all qualified for the promotion. Then at least everyone has more incentive to take the matches as seriously as possible. And what if you get stuck 5th pick in a promotion match? At lower elo, you can't seriously carry games as support. Top or mid feeds, and you're powerless to change the outcome. It's literally a dice roll at that point, and you can't dodge to try for a higher slot. You could easily have to grind out another 20+ games to get another chance for promotion because of random factors.

That's not even touching the matter that you can drop back down a tier after a hard won promotion series because of trolling or bad teammates, forcing you through the same process you just went through AGAIN. No, this is going to end is record breaking numbers of tribunal reports in ranked and it was already a bad environment.


Yup....

Punishment is too severe without a method of defending from pregame trolls.

Even a cancel game vote would work.... vote kick would be best though to punish trolls and put them on the time wait instead of the legit players.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Disgustipated86 View Post
Dodging to avoid bad games was never intended by riot, that is one reason they removed elo penalty because they saw how harmful it was. It was originally intended for people who needed to leave in a hurry or could not stay an entire game, not to dodge annoying teams.


Riot removed the ELO penalty for season 2

Riot added a removal from series and loss of points/ranking and possible tier loss for season 3, along with the prexisting dodge timer penalty.

------

The harmful punishment is back and worse than ever, rewarding the trolls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warcrackked View Post
I find it ironic im being punished for trying to avoid playing with the scum of the earth and when i dodge they are free to troll the next game and I wait. Making me lose points to trolls is just going to turn me into the thing i hate most. Two negatives makes a positive?

Thats how I look at it as well....

We are triple punished...
- Time wait
- Removed from our series to raise in Ranking Tier
- Loss of points

Trolls on the other hand...
- Trolled you into quitting
- Get instant requeue
- Troll more people into dodging and losing ranking

Vote Kick Change Possibility
10 times being kicked could send chat log to Tribunal or Riot for review of pregame chat logs... and when kicked you wait out 5 minutes allowing the legit players a head start in requeue to avoid you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Disgustipated86 View Post
So you could communicate with the would be troll instead of kicking them?

Been in too many other games in which kicking is a feature, people get kicked for the stupidest reasons so your plan has no way to be truly balanced.


Players are currently being punished for avoiding trolls at a rate that has Riot for a loss of words.... so Riot raised the punishment for dodging instead of giving a defense against the problem ... the trolls

If kicked you have a 5 minute wait while the others get in a game..... after 10 times being kicked, pregame logs are sent to riot for review....this has many options of vote... not just punish / pardon... but maybe a bubble system to punish the real troll from chat which would then flag that tribunal report on the person bubbled and if they recieve 10 or so,, then that bubbled person's logs are sent to tribunal..

many options on the table

defense necessary

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naebliss View Post
The no confidence in team is a very good idea. Nobody gets punished directly... people just agree.. this will be a waste of 20 minutes and move on to the next game without having to wait 30 minutes.


Is the current system acceptable?

You get trolled and are stuck with that person for 20-70 minutes or you are reported...

You dodge and have a time wait PLUS season 3 you are punished with lose of position in ranked series and loss of ranking points.

Why punish the innocent when the trolls are the problem and win? Something is better than nothing and less abuse will be done than is done currently

Or do you like trolls wasteing your 20-70 minutes at a time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oddible View Post
2 Suggestions:

- Change from Kick Vote to Cancel Team vote (or no confidence in team), resets the queue everyone goes back to matchmaking.

- Players only get 1 Cancel Team initiation per day. Each player can ONLY start a cancel team vote once per day, to limit the problem stated above.


Very good idea as a second option ... kick when you want the person punished.... cancel when the team just isnt working out while limiting the chances daily to avoid abuse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atonal Elegy View Post
The problem with this system is that ranked queues would get even longer, I problem is see people complaining about all the time.

You mid gets countered? Vote to kick.
Your top gets countered? Vote to kick.

You'll be sitting there kicking people until you get the perfect team or someone on your team decides to be a jerk/troll and refuse to kick.


This can be addressed in Test Server Testing...

However ...

The benefits of the ability are more than being trolled into dodging and being severly punished under the season 3 punishment standards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kulmid View Post
Even not taking into account the numerous good reasons not to implement a "kick option", this would completely defeat the purpose of the exact point you quoted from Yegg... The whole point of the harsh dodge pentalty is because of the rampant dodging and TIME IT TAKES FOR PEOPLE TO GO THROUGH Qs. This idea would literally just exaggerate the problem with dodgers AND kicks...



Well.. It would give the players the option to kick trolls... making room for non trolls and thus speeding up the Q process.... This is becasue good players dodge trolls, and trolls continue to harass....if we kick and penalize the trolls then the good players remain.

My method speeds up the Q by removing the trolls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Graszwhistle View Post
While I dont believe a votekick option can work without it being abused to various degrees,

I do think there needs to be "report player" option in pregame that will send the chat to tribunal regardless of if the game gets dodged or not.


While this would be nice, we should concentrate on one thing at a time.

The punishment for a dodge is:

- Getting too extreme
- Punishing those who are playing legit
- Rewarding trolling by letting the trolls continue to make people dodge and troll games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lavajuice View Post
Many of you are underestimating how obvious some pregame trolling is. Troll summoners is probably the most blatant example. As for odd picks, if you want to do something a little unorthodox and assure me you've done it a lot and it actually works really well, then I won't mind giving you the benefit of the doubt. But if you cannot give me a single reason why you are doing what you are doing then I'm not going to trust you to do well.


And if they threaten to afk, feed or leave... I only ask my teamates to try...even when I dislike their choice in champs...

Being punished as severly as Riot plans to in Season 3 is unacceptable when a dodge to avoid such a player is necessary for progression in ranked.

Without it, we are forced to spend the next 20-70 minutes with that person or we get sent to tribunal ... it can be very painful and is senseless to force us to submit to it

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Sgt Pepper View Post
Good Idea, but this will never happen. Threads like these have come and gone since season 1.


This maybe true....

But due to the Red response on it, we need it now without question

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiffmeisterZ View Post
I would like to have it, but at the same time for people who main and win with unconventional champs it could be an extreme pain.

It's worth testing something on the PBE at the very least.

Yes, it's easily exploited, but so is the current system.


One way to avoid this is to make the kicks not time punish the person kicked... they instead just requeue....

This lets players kick the trolls and continue on instead of having to dodge and being penalized like the current system...

This will lesson the punishment and dodging while allowing legits to play untrolled

Quote:
Originally Posted by THE FECKFACE View Post
It's subject to abuse two ways.

First, if there is a time penalty to the person kicked, Then being wrongfully kicked (it WILL happen, don't kid yourself) will result in an unfair punishment.

Second, if there's no time penalty: "Hey guys, I don't like our team comp vs theirs, kick me". "Yeah, I agree". Free dodge.


@ First
Currently we are wrongfully punished for dodging a troll to save ELO... Current = wrongful and punishes the good while allowing the trolls to troll until they get in a game to troll more

@ Second
Guess a time penalty must be in place then to prevent that, but at least the trolls are less likely to troll with a threat of being kicked.

Possible Third
Limits on the availability to vote will need to be set to once per person per queue, and only after all champs are locked in...this makes use of that extra time after the last champ is locked....maybe extend that time to 60 seconds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eleshakai View Post
The one provision I'd like to see is that if you vote-kick someone, the game goes back to the 'queue' phase and the four players who kicked the fifth are put LOWER in the queue than the one kicked - ie. unless the one kicked dodges or leaves the queue, he gets a new game FIRST.

This way, you can't troll someone by voting them out frivolously or just because you don't like their champ pick. If you do so, they get to play BEFORE you.


Well that could work except that keeps the troll being rewarded...

What makes more sense is a minimum 5 minute waiting period after you are kicked so that the other 4 can get back in without you this time around.

That gives a minimal punishment while making the kick worth it.

Trolls have to learn that its wrong to troll....and legits need a chance to play without being trolled and losing ranking for dodging a troll

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZO KidKaiser View Post
pew pew.
like all good ideas. this one will surely be abused.


Possible, and yes people have pointed out some methods...

However...

The benefits outweigh the possible abuses.

-------------------------

Riot raised the punishment in season 3 for dodging becasue they think that people are dodging to much by statistics....

Riot forgot that the dodging is due to trolls causing legit players to dodge for a time penalty rather than a loss of Ranking.

----------------

Something else that the Vote kick could be used for that friends just facebooked me on is that once you are kicked 10 times, your pregame chats all goto tribunal making a report..

Tribunal can then vote on your pregame behaivor as a troll...

Decent idea

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toonzilla View Post
Love the idea of this thread, bump for support.


Thanks mate..... we need a shield from trolls

Even a cancel team vote would be something with such a harsh punishment on the line

Quote:
Originally Posted by D03Z View Post
I'm all for any system that will rid champ select of trolls without having to dodge.


Amen


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r3qui3m

Senior Member

01-16-2013

bump...this is definitely needed with the new system


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TheCøøkieMonster

Senior Member

01-16-2013

(Please dont forget to state your thoughts on the poll and your reason for yes or no)

Thanks


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RavageRose

Senior Member

01-16-2013

i made a very similar post AGES ago. About how if a toxic player is on your team prior to playing a match, for players to have the option to vote to kick that player an restart your que. Result that player would be given a 30 min timer for his vote kick. for this to work, 3/4 other players would have to vote to kick him, so in solo que there would be no real way to abuse this system. this would also work for randomizes and AFKers


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Kulmid

Senior Member

01-16-2013

Even not taking into account the numerous good reasons not to implement a "kick option", this would completely defeat the purpose of the exact point you quoted from Yegg... The whole point of the harsh dodge pentalty is because of the rampant dodging and TIME IT TAKES FOR PEOPLE TO GO THROUGH Qs. This idea would literally just exaggerate the problem with dodgers AND kicks...

Quote:
and we're not interested in having some players carefully micromanaging their series matchups at the expense of everyone else's queue times and failed lobbies.


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Inhibited

Senior Member

01-16-2013

I agree here. Especially because Yegg talked about how too many people are dodging now; but there's still nothing being done about blatant trolls in champion select. Naturally you could just play through, call the trolls on their bluffs and actually force them to play the losing game so they drop to where they belong, but why should they be able to take you with them? There are legitimate reasons for players to dodge, and it feels like this and many other things Riot doesn't do "because they could be exploited" are only looking at how bad players could abuse them instead of how much it would help genuine normal players deal with bad players.


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D03Z

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Senior Member

01-16-2013

I'm all for any system that will rid champ select of trolls without having to dodge.


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sdfzxcv

Senior Member

01-16-2013

This will be abused with lolking.net

And arguments over selection of champions.


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kraxirra

Senior Member

01-16-2013

Sweet, now I will be absolutely forced to give my best role(s) to other people in the games where it matters most. Fun times.