@Morello: 2 years ago you said LeBlanc will be good when "tanky men are less popular"

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Samflash3

Senior Member

01-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by PurePowah View Post
Dear Morello,

Itís been almost two years since Iíve originally created my first thread regarding LeBlanc. I decided maybe I was just 'adjusting' to the ĎAD Carry/Support Botlaneí meta and that maybe someone will find some crazy new meta where burst assassins are really strong. Well two years later itís still the same meta, and LeBlanc still maintains a consistent low pick & win ratio.

Two years ago you said this:

I donít want to quickly jump to conclusions but I feel like this meta is not going anywhere anytime soon. It also seems that Season 3 has only decreased the value of ap assassins & ap mages.

Why play mages when AD bruisers / assassins do everything they do but better? And with the recent Season 3 changes I feel like LeBlanc has never been in such a bad spot. The DFG has really hurt LeBlanc for one specific reason. The old DFG with a hat & sorcerer shoes vs. an AD Carry with 42 Mr could 100-0 them with DFG->Q->R->W & Ignite. The new DFG is only stronger if you can land the chains and get the full damage off of them. Itís very hard to 100-0 people out of position now because most AD Carries run cleanse and can cleanse + flash out of the chains, or sometimes they can react before you can cast the chains.

The new DFG requires LeBlanc to get the chains off to make up for the damage that was lost. The significantly hurt LeBlanc because she depended on catching people out of position with a quick 3 second assassination (DFG->Q->R->W and maybe ignite).

A long time ago Shurelia said this:

I understand that Shurelia no longer works at Riot (?), however where the changes that she said scrapped upon her departure of Riot Games? Iíve been waiting for any changes that would hopefully change LeBlanc for the better.



What about these changes? Were they also scrapped? I personally thought it would help her out, because it would make up for her weak passive. LeBlanc is supposed to be a deceiver, and her Mirror Imageís AI is very poor.



I also really thought these were actually going to make it to live because it seemed like a great addition the her.

LeBlanc is notorious for having the ďhighest level 6 burstĒ, however after jaken55 @ Reddit did a number crunch on AP Midlaneís level 6 burst, it appears that LeBlanc no longer holds #1.

LeBlancís level 6 burst is an estimated 780, and Syndraís is 905, almost 20% more.

Iím not going to discuss what needs to be done to balance LeBlanc, I tried that two years ago and it obviously did not work. Iím not here to argue whether or not she needs to be buffed / reworked. Whatever the case may be, something is wrong with this champion. I would appreciate it if you would shed some light on this topic, or even acknowledge her existence.

LeBlanc is my favorite character, however I feel she is completely outclassed and is in such a bad place after the Season 3 update. I donít want to believe you have given up on this character because sheís the only reason Iíve stuck around this game so long.


TL;DR - Were the ideas you've tossed around years ago just empty ideas to keep LeBlanc players quite, or is there something in store for LeBlanc? These 'Season 3 changes' are destroying this character and I'm getting tired of waiting.. it's been two years now.
I wonder what it would be if the mimicked ability was an AoE. Similar to how Ryze works ( ell just for 1 spell)


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Yoruichi

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Senior Member

01-13-2013

Bump for LB love.


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PNDM

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Senior Member

01-13-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samflash3 View Post
I wonder what it would be if the mimicked ability was an AoE. Similar to how Ryze works ( ell just for 1 spell)
I still think it wouldn't help much because she would not have any clear / pushing without blowing her ultimate & escape


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PNDM

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Senior Member

01-13-2013

LeBump


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Hazanshu

Senior Member

01-14-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by PurePowah View Post
I still think it wouldn't help much because she would not have any clear / pushing without blowing her ultimate & escape
How about the secondary portion of Leblanc's Q does aoe o-o still same damage but it would help alleviate her farm/clear.

Distortion could use a better ratio it's really meh in return lowered base damage?

Her E needs help lol it hit in weird angles and has a wonky hitbox >_> And as you mentioned you would have to stay in range of a person for 2 seconds to get off the root while getting diminshed return effect on her snare until level 4 ethereal chains. It would be better if the root was 2.0- 2.5 at all levels. Would be nice if it gave a debuff or something o-o at reduced base dmg? Like increased dmg or reduced mr for her E.


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PNDM

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Senior Member

01-14-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazanshu View Post
Her E needs help lol it hit in weird angles and has a wonky hitbox >_> And as you mentioned you would have to stay in range of a person for 2 seconds to get off the root while getting diminshed return effect on her snare until level 4 ethereal chains. It would be better if the root was 2.0- 2.5 at all levels. Would be nice if it gave a debuff or something o-o at reduced base dmg? Like increased dmg or reduced mr for her E.
This is my biggest problem with LeBlanc currently. Her E does NOT feel good to use at all and it is very weird and clunky. I believe a quality of life visual update to this ability would push LeBlanc in the right direction without giving her power.


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PNDM

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Senior Member

01-14-2013

Morello pls


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Morello

Lead Designer

01-14-2013
1 of 3 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by PurePowah View Post
Dear Morello,

Itís been almost two years since Iíve originally created my first thread regarding LeBlanc. I decided maybe I was just 'adjusting' to the ĎAD Carry/Support Botlaneí meta and that maybe someone will find some crazy new meta where burst assassins are really strong. Well two years later itís still the same meta, and LeBlanc still maintains a consistent low pick & win ratio.

Two years ago you said this:

I donít want to quickly jump to conclusions but I feel like this meta is not going anywhere anytime soon. It also seems that Season 3 has only decreased the value of ap assassins & ap mages.

Why play mages when AD bruisers / assassins do everything they do but better? And with the recent Season 3 changes I feel like LeBlanc has never been in such a bad spot. The DFG has really hurt LeBlanc for one specific reason. The old DFG with a hat & sorcerer shoes vs. an AD Carry with 42 Mr could 100-0 them with DFG->Q->R->W & Ignite. The new DFG is only stronger if you can land the chains and get the full damage off of them. Itís very hard to 100-0 people out of position now because most AD Carries run cleanse and can cleanse + flash out of the chains, or sometimes they can react before you can cast the chains.

The new DFG requires LeBlanc to get the chains off to make up for the damage that was lost. The significantly hurt LeBlanc because she depended on catching people out of position with a quick 3 second assassination (DFG->Q->R->W and maybe ignite).

A long time ago Shurelia said this:

I understand that Shurelia no longer works at Riot (?), however where the changes that she said scrapped upon her departure of Riot Games? Iíve been waiting for any changes that would hopefully change LeBlanc for the better.



What about these changes? Were they also scrapped? I personally thought it would help her out, because it would make up for her weak passive. LeBlanc is supposed to be a deceiver, and her Mirror Imageís AI is very poor.



I also really thought these were actually going to make it to live because it seemed like a great addition the her.

LeBlanc is notorious for having the ďhighest level 6 burstĒ, however after jaken55 @ Reddit did a number crunch on AP Midlaneís level 6 burst, it appears that LeBlanc no longer holds #1.

LeBlancís level 6 burst is an estimated 780, and Syndraís is 905, almost 20% more.

Iím not going to discuss what needs to be done to balance LeBlanc, I tried that two years ago and it obviously did not work. Iím not here to argue whether or not she needs to be buffed / reworked. Whatever the case may be, something is wrong with this champion. I would appreciate it if you would shed some light on this topic, or even acknowledge her existence.

LeBlanc is my favorite character, however I feel she is completely outclassed and is in such a bad place after the Season 3 update. I donít want to believe you have given up on this character because sheís the only reason Iíve stuck around this game so long.


TL;DR - Were the ideas you've tossed around years ago just empty ideas to keep LeBlanc players quite, or is there something in store for LeBlanc? These 'Season 3 changes' are destroying this character and I'm getting tired of waiting.. it's been two years now.
Hey - good post and good sourcing of the ideas you're asking about! <3

Shurelia's ideas weren't finished off - while one good thing about Riot is that we empower people of any seniority level to drive changes and own stuff, one downside (luckily, rare instance) is that if someone leaves, there's potential to lose the work. Especially in those days where it was even more hectic (mother of God... ), this happened in this case.

Looking back, I think LeBlanc's real problem is the binary nature of the burst kit - and pretty much since I made the original post, burst never made the comeback since. Additionally, I think Veigar (and potentially Annie) provide more utility than LeBlanc, and overall better scaling generally.

So, problems as I see them today:

* Burst is still bad, especially if that's all the character has.

* Annie and Veiger, conversely, offer at least noticable control. LeBlanc's utility is weak in a gamestate rule by utility mages.

* LeBlanc's scaling is worse than that, generally speaking, of similar mages.

What are your thoughts on that?


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FalconPawwwwnch

Member

01-14-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Hey - good post and good sourcing of the ideas you're asking about! <3

Shurelia's ideas weren't finished off - while one good thing about Riot is that we empower people of any seniority level to drive changes and own stuff, one downside (luckily, rare instance) is that if someone leaves, there's potential to lose the work. Especially in those days where it was even more hectic (mother of God... ), this happened in this case.

Looking back, I think LeBlanc's real problem is the binary nature of the burst kit - and pretty much since I made the original post, burst never made the comeback since. Additionally, I think Veigar (and potentially Annie) provide more utility than LeBlanc, and overall better scaling generally.

So, problems as I see them today:

* Burst is still bad, especially if that's all the character has.

* Annie and Veiger, conversely, offer at least noticable control. LeBlanc's utility is weak in a gamestate rule by utility mages.

* LeBlanc's scaling is worse than that, generally speaking, of similar mages.

What are your thoughts on that?
So do you guys plan on fixing the issues with ad casters dominating the scene now? Leblanc's supposed to have a strong early game. Against mages, at least she sometimes could take advantage. Tell me how a leblanc stands a chance vs a khazix or a leesin. They are just as good in laning phase, can roam just as hard, and are actually really useful later. Im not saying ad mids are op but I feel like it's really unfair to some people like leblanc who are even worse now than before.


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saeedaisspecial1

Member

01-14-2013

Leblanc is also horrible farmer and pusher. Especially compared to veigar and annie.
Also the new kat and eve are great farmers, great roamers and strong assasins. Why pick lb over so many champs.
Have you thought of making one of her spells refresh on kill/assist? To give her more teamfight presence .

Or can you tell you what your ideas have been to make her viable.

Also have you thought about reworking her passive or even any of her spells.