Select an option:

Keep new TT as it is with altars 119 36.73%
Change new TT altars to buff camps as detailed below 156 48.15%
Remove altars completely from new TT, but with no added buff camps 49 15.12%
Voters: 324. You may not vote on this poll

The altars are the problem, solution to fix this map entirely inside

First Riot Post
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PurpleURP

Senior Member

01-09-2013

The changes to the altar cap rules have made the altars more fluid in game play and more equitable for ranged squishy heros, but in the end, they are still a failed mechanic that just aren't very fun to deal with. Additionally, since they are more difficult to cap they basically just sit there most of the game, just like VM. This lack of early game team fights over altars makes winning even more dependent on team ganks early game which basically a ghost buff to busiers and the opposite of what is good. There are some changes that can be made to make this map significantly better and more fun as detailed below.

1. replace the altars with buff camps - relics instead of speed shrines are a step in the right direction, but just don't cut it, the altars themselves are the real issue.
2. expand the top jungle by moving the wraith camp to both sides of VM and adding bushes in top jungle and making secondary entrances near the top of each side of the map. This would promote more game play around in top jungle. Additionally, put a tri-bush where the wraiths were originally with access back to the jungle, to make deep invades into enemy territory more feasible as currently if you are caught by wraiths on the enemies side with the turret still up you are just out of luck with no escape route.
3. nerf vilemaw debuff, make the his web more predictable, and increase gold received, further increasing game play in top jungle.
4. move top lane outer towers closer together to make lane freezes more difficult
5. add back wards - which would be aided with the addition to the top and mid jungles.
6. move the store to the middle of the spawning area - the buying range is way to short going to bottom lane.

The map would be 100% better if you guys made these changes. This is supposed to be a beta edition of the map, so please follow through on testing these ideas because they will produce a better overall map than the one that is currently on the live servers. Also, until changes like these are made TT will continue to be lack luster on the competitive arena. Make shadow isle really twisted treeline!


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Geekweezul

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Senior Member

01-31-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleURP View Post
The changes to the altar cap rules have made the altars more fluid in game play and more equitable for ranged squishy heros, but in the end, they are still a failed mechanic that just aren't very fun to deal with. Additionally, since they are more difficult to cap they basically just sit there most of the game, just like VM. This lack of early game team fights over altars makes winning even more dependent on team ganks early game which basically a ghost buff to busiers and the opposite of what is good. There are some changes that can be made to make this map significantly better and more fun as detailed below.

1. replace the altars with buff camps - relics instead of speed shrines are a step in the right direction, but just don't cut it, the altars themselves are the real issue.
Man, I really like the altars. I know I'm not plat or gold or whatever, but I've enjoyed that aspect of this TT. They don't feel too powerful, and they provide a nice fighting spot.

I would like it if they would remove the walls around them though. I think they should just be flat on the ground where you can run up to them from any direction, not just top and bot.

Quote:
2. expand the top jungle by moving the wraith camp to both sides of VM and adding bushes in top jungle and making secondary entrances near the top of each side of the map. This would promote more game play around in top jungle. Additionally, put a tri-bush where the wraiths were originally with access back to the jungle, to make deep invades into enemy territory more feasible as currently if you are caught by wraiths on the enemies side with the turret still up you are just out of luck with no escape route.
I'm all for more jungle variety.

Quote:
3. nerf vilemaw debuff, make the his web more predictable, and increase gold received, further increasing game play in top jungle.
I would be for a slight nerf, but it doesn't feel like having vilemaw is an automatic team fight winner...again, maybe because we're only 1350 Elo though...we are more cautious when they have it, but it doesn't feel like a game-changer.

I like the unpredictableness of his web. I also like RNG a lot in video games, so...

Quote:
4. move top lane outer towers closer together to make lane freezes more difficult
I'm 9000% for this. I hate lane freezing...even when I do it myself.

Quote:
5. add back wards - which would be aided with the addition to the top and mid jungles.
Hmm...I kinda like the no wards feature. I would like to try the jungle you've described without wards first.

Quote:
6. move the store to the middle of the spawning area - the buying range is way to short going to bottom lane.
I've never had an issue, but if it is a shorter range then it should def. be addressed.

I'm personally loving the map as it is, but I'm always game for improvements.


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Infirc

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Senior Member

01-31-2013

Lemme see if i got this right so you are saying that a bruiser rampaging out of the jungle with a gray buff that no one else has a chance to get is far more balanced than an altar where people can force the bruiser out?, i'm sorry man but i fail to see why what you're suggesting is logic or even balanced....

Please keep your 1v3 bruiserwet dreams outside of league of legends as a whole.


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PurpleURP

Senior Member

01-31-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Infirc View Post
Lemme see if i got this right so you are saying that a bruiser rampaging out of the jungle with a gray buff that no one else has a chance to get is far more balanced than an altar where people can force the bruiser out?, i'm sorry man but i fail to see why what you're suggesting is logic or even balanced....

Please keep your 1v3 bruiserwet dreams outside of league of legends as a whole.
It's not. I think you are referring to the mid mini-boss idea. Grey buff was always op, this mini boss buff doesn't have to be a speed buff, it doesn't even have to have a buff. I'm really just looking for another objective to fight over on the map. If they put enough team gold on killing it, it would be worth it even without the buff. Even if it was a speed buff, if it was short term and only 10-15% ms increase wouldn't be the 1v3 bad-assery that you are thinking of.


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Rasmorak

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Member

01-31-2013

I agree. The new TT feels like it should be 2v2 instead of a 3v3. There is absolutely no point to jungle at all with the sole exception of a level 2 gank. That is it. Even the health rune isn't worth having a jungler secure because it gives a small speed boost and health restoration (every few minutes, and pots give back the same amount). Vilemaw really doesn't give enough rewards in my opinion to be worth going for at all unless you've already smashed the enemy team and own both altars.

Topping all that off, I hate the altars. Twisted Treeline with buffs was fun. The altars are a chore. If you don't constantly own both of them, you lose because the stats they give are so strong.


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Hustletron

Member

02-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasmorak View Post
I agree. The new TT feels like it should be 2v2 instead of a 3v3. There is absolutely no point to jungle at all with the sole exception of a level 2 gank. That is it. Even the health rune isn't worth having a jungler secure because it gives a small speed boost and health restoration (every few minutes, and pots give back the same amount). Vilemaw really doesn't give enough rewards in my opinion to be worth going for at all unless you've already smashed the enemy team and own both altars.

Topping all that off, I hate the altars. Twisted Treeline with buffs was fun. The altars are a chore. If you don't constantly own both of them, you lose because the stats they give are so strong.
I agree with most of this, I loved the old TT and still don't like the current TT.

Getting dragon felt like it meant something in the old TT, killing vilemaw doesn't really matter. You can still smash enemies with the buff as if they had no altars.

I also liked the 2 jungles in the old TT, I felt like there was more chasing and jukes than there are now, it's either run straight at each other or run away.


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Puffball

Member

02-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by PurpleURP View Post
The changes to the altar cap rules have made the altars more fluid in game play and more equitable for ranged squishy heros, but in the end, they are still a failed mechanic that just aren't very fun to deal with. Additionally, since they are more difficult to cap they basically just sit there most of the game, just like VM. This lack of early game team fights over altars makes winning even more dependent on team ganks early game which basically a ghost buff to busiers and the opposite of what is good. There are some changes that can be made to make this map significantly better and more fun as detailed below.

1. replace the altars with buff camps - relics instead of speed shrines are a step in the right direction, but just don't cut it, the altars themselves are the real issue.
2. expand the top jungle by moving the wraith camp to both sides of VM and adding bushes in top jungle and making secondary entrances near the top of each side of the map. This would promote more game play around in top jungle. Additionally, put a tri-bush where the wraiths were originally with access back to the jungle, to make deep invades into enemy territory more feasible as currently if you are caught by wraiths on the enemies side with the turret still up you are just out of luck with no escape route.
3. nerf vilemaw debuff, make the his web more predictable, and increase gold received, further increasing game play in top jungle.
4. move top lane outer towers closer together to make lane freezes more difficult
5. add back wards - which would be aided with the addition to the top and mid jungles.
6. move the store to the middle of the spawning area - the buying range is way to short going to bottom lane.

The map would be 100% better if you guys made these changes. This is supposed to be a beta edition of the map, so please follow through on testing these ideas because they will produce a better overall map than the one that is currently on the live servers. Also, until changes like these are made TT will continue to be lack luster on the competitive arena. Make shadow isle really twisted treeline!
TL;DR Make this old TT with some minor changes


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PurpleURP

Senior Member

02-01-2013

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hustletron View Post
I agree with most of this, I loved the old TT and still don't like the current TT.

Getting dragon felt like it meant something in the old TT, killing vilemaw doesn't really matter. You can still smash enemies with the buff as if they had no altars.

I also liked the 2 jungles in the old TT, I felt like there was more chasing and jukes than there are now, it's either run straight at each other or run away.
This exactly. The map is a bit too small now. A top jungle would fix a lot of problems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Puffball View Post
TL;DR Make this old TT with some minor changes
It would be a lot more like the old TT. That is the point.


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BaBeeQ

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Senior Member

02-01-2013

God Bless Riot Gnome


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Onioncart

Senior Member

02-02-2013

Rejoice! Riot cares for the fine people of TT!
I loved the old TT jungle.