@ricklessabandon Why u math so good?

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Super Explosion

Senior Member

12-29-2012

Liandry's is an extremely useful pick, even as a rush item.

The burn just adds up very well, like having a purchasable Brand passive.

It's the same thing you see in Blackfire Torch and Black Cleaver-- an item that gives you all stats you want, and a very attractive additional effect.

The existence of Liandry's as a strong generalist item pushes Void into a more specialized tank-killing role, since going flat-pen no longer stalls your scaling in Season 3.


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Bergtau

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Senior Member

12-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricklessabandon View Post
runic is more than enough reason, tbh. chances are that a couple of the enemy champions have scaling base magic resist, and magic resist glyphs aren't entirely uncommon.
besides, i think that chalice, abyssal, guardian angel, hexdrinker, merc treads, and aegis are all still fairly common.
GA is bought because is resurrects. If you made that magic resist into health or AP/AD people would still buy it.
Merc Treads are bought because they are boots that give Tenacity.
Abyssal Scepter is also part of the problem here.

To be honest it feels like the new items are too offensively focused. Buying magic resist and armor feels useless a lot of the time.


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ricklessabandon

qa analyst

12-29-2012
4 of 9 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by RazyUltim8 View Post
You do NOT penetrate more MR than in s2. Mages are immensely weaker for many reasons
we changed the way penetration is calculated. percent is calculated before flat now, so most of your post (that would have been true under the old rules) is invalidated by that.

the 'sorc shoes alone' bit is still right. with just m.pen marks, sorc shoes and the m.pen mastery, a target with 30 magic resist pre-mitigation would take damage as if they had 4.8 magic resist instead of 1.35 magic resist (and the gap gets closer as they gain magic resist).


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Ralik098

Senior Member

12-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricklessabandon View Post
we changed the way penetration is calculated. percent is calculated before flat now, so most of your post (that would have been true under the old rules) is invalidated by that.

the 'sorc shoes alone' bit is still right. with just m.pen marks, sorc shoes and the m.pen mastery, a target with 30 magic resist pre-mitigation would take damage as if they had 4.8 magic resist instead of 1.38 magic resist (and the gap gets closer as they gain magic resist).
It used to be the way it is now a long time ago and then it was changed to be flat before % based pen. Why did you decide to revert that change now?

Relevant thread

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2950463


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RazyUltim8

Member

12-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricklessabandon View Post
we changed the way penetration is calculated. percent is calculated before flat now, so most of your post (that would have been true under the old rules) is invalidated by that.

the 'sorc shoes alone' bit is still right. with just m.pen marks, sorc shoes and the m.pen mastery, a target with 30 magic resist pre-mitigation would take damage as if they had 4.8 magic resist instead of 1.38 magic resist (and the gap gets closer as they gain magic resist).
try doing the math tbh. Unless you stack all the magic pen items (haunting or abyssal, sorc, void) you are not penetrating more than in s2.

You also penetrate less on high MR targets.

The only way for a caster to penetrate more than before is stacking 3-4 penetration items, but no one does that, and if you do, you have little AP because of the lack of high end AP items like seraphs embrace, dcap, dfg, roa, rylais, etc.

Check out my math thread, and tell me where I'm wrong:
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/...4#post32711194
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2868276

In short, mages early game was severely nerfed due to flat Mpen nerfs all across the board (That alone is pretty huge IMO, it can affect snowballing greatly) and, unless you stack penetration items (which is a subpar choice), you are not gonna penetrate more than in s2.

The standard for mages is sorc shoes + void staff (and void staff is not an item that you rush). Some champions don't really need haunting guise, maybe it could work if haunting guise had a decent upgrade, but it does not. Tell me, why do I want a liandrys torment or abyssal scepter on a champion like Syndra?

It's unrealistic to say that penetration was buffed if you factor in every single pen item in the game. I'm sure that even in s2 if you stacked all penetration items, you would do inflict almost true damage. but nobody did that because spending over 7k gold on 180~ AP is and will always be SUBPAR on champions with good ap ratios and burst.


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ricklessabandon

qa analyst

12-29-2012
5 of 9 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Explosion View Post
Liandry's is an extremely useful pick, even as a rush item.
eh, i'm not convinced that rushing liandry's is a great idea—i'd rather put the 1415g towards other things until its best case of 1.67% current health every 0.5 seconds is better than my champion's natural scaling (that is often more reliable) and other actives/passives i want in my build.

i still think the passive good, but i haven't seen a situation in which liandry's rush was the best call.


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JeDo Nimble

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Senior Member

12-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ricklessabandon View Post
i like it a lot on champions that already enjoy rylai's—singed is a really good example, imo.
Why would somebody stack Rylai's in favor of Rylai's + Warmog's + Deathcap. A lot of the combine price on Rylai's goes to the passive that doesn't stack.


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Super Explosion

Senior Member

12-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RazyUltim8 View Post
-The rise of the AD assassins.
This is a somewhat useful note of comparison, disregarding the rest of the post--

AD Champions and AP Champions both got strong generalist items in Season 3.

Black Cleaver, and Liandry's.

Anyone can build either of those items and do quite reasonably.

Percent health damage is very useful, armor shred is very useful.

The issue arises that armor shred is actually much more useful in the current environment.

A champion can build Black Cleaver and not only make himself quite powerful, but also amplify the damage of the Ranged AD Carry significantly.

Although, some of the "AD assassins are suddenly powerful" is due to Kha'Zix having high-damage poke, in addition to his assassinating.


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Corruption44

Senior Member

12-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Almeena View Post
Why would somebody stack Rylai's in favor of Rylai's + Warmog's + Deathcap. A lot of the combine price on Rylai's goes to the passive that doesn't stack.
I don't think you read what you quoted very well.


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RazyUltim8

Member

12-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Explosion View Post
This is a somewhat useful note of comparison, disregarding the rest of the post--

AD Champions and AP Champions both got strong generalist items in Season 3.

Black Cleaver, and Liandry's.

Anyone can build either of those items and do quite reasonably.

Percent health damage is very useful, armor shred is very useful.

The issue arises that armor shred is actually much more useful in the current environment.

A champion can build Black Cleaver and not only make himself quite powerful, but also amplify the damage of the Ranged AD Carry significantly.

Although, some of the "AD assassins are suddenly powerful" is due to Kha'Zix having high-damage poke, in addition to his assassinating.
Nice disregarding then, anyway, liandrys is a horrible item. Maybe 2-3 champions can use it properly (just like most S3 items).