What features of the proposed system do you find helpful:

Ability to report for actions during champ select 125 56.82%
Ability to kick unruly/trolling players 161 73.18%
Not having to dodge in these situations 97 44.09%
Not having to play in these situations 97 44.09%
None 27 12.27%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 220. You may not vote on this poll

Vote to Kick: The Definitive Solution

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Vanitius

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12-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mensen View Post
But the vote-kick system is only a band-aid solution, and only complicates things.


Imagine you had a leak in your roof. Water is now dripping onto your floor. You can do two things:

1. Put a bucket/bowl underneath the drip, and contain the water

2. Fix your roof so it no longer leaks


The vote-kick solution is comparable to the first solution to the problem in the analogy. While is fixes the problem (water is no longer all over your floor), it introduces new problems (you now have a bowl/bucket in the middle of your hallway).

Likewise, the vote-kick solution simply introduces new problems.The fact of the matter is, vote-kick system has several negative consequences, including:

- Meta stagnation
- Period between successfully being matchmade and getting into a game is detrimentally increased
- And that "trolls" will still be there; they just won't have so much influence on what happens in champion select


Again, if this was the solution, it would of already happened. Believe it or not, Riot employees do play their own game, and experience everything you do. It is likely something of their concern and probably something they will address in the future.
I can forgive all of this except: "Period between successfully being matchmade and getting into a game is detrimentally increased" being matched with a troll on your team is not effective matchmaking. That's not to say it's Riot's fault, but it's certainly not your responsibility to play with a troll on your team.

You cannot stop people from trolling proactively. The problem is not that people are trolling, the problem is that their trolling affects other's gameplay. Something directly against the summoner's code. That is what I'm trying to prevent.

As far as I'm concerned, if you find clear evidence of someone deliberately trolling, and they're punished by the tribunal, they should be instantly and permanently. But I don't decide punishment. I just report those who I think deserve punishment.

tl&dr: Your leaky roof analogy is flawed. Trolls aren't the drip, they're the rain. You can't stop the rain, but you can fix your roof so the rain doesn't get through.


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Saysay

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12-24-2012

so now people would be able to kick me for playing heimer and ap ez.. no thanks


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Vanitius

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12-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawnbroker View Post
I agree that there are legit reasons to dodge trolls etc... However, vote kick is not the answer. The number one reason I chose to focus my time learning LoL over other MOBAs is because this one doesn't vote kick players for their elo score alone.

If players can vote kick at champ select it will be abused to kick solo queue players who simply have a lower elo than others. This can result in 10 minutes added to the amount of time it takes to actually play a game.
No one is suggesting the ability to do that. Besides the fact that you need 3 people who all go into the game doing that.

Rarely do I get into a ranked game as first pick and go. "Man this game is gonna suck if I'm our best player." Who thinks that?


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Vanitius

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12-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tribunal Justice View Post
Your system is too easy to abuse. You assume that one side is right and one side is wrong. Often the problem is no one is right and someone has to go on and on about how they are right and the other guys is wrong.

That becomes really painful with the other guy feels the same way and goes on and on about it.

That's when you have a terrible game. And whose fault is it? Both.

That's why there's a system to judge and evaluate how people act. Even this system is having bugs in it from time to time as trends change and people become more or less punitive. However, it has more gradual steps that slowly identify people who are just bad to everyone basically.

What you want is immediate action to punish someone. It's a bad idea and would have bad results for a lot of people. People aren't meant to get along with all the other people in the world. But as long as you play the game and try to win that's what matters. Just ignore the other guy and do what you want to do because it's a game and not a matter of life or death. You can't control what someone else does so don't let them control you.
Summary:
1. Ranked Solo/Duo queue.
2. A vote is a report for a particular action.
3. Three votes, you're out.
----4. No immediate penalty required. (Recommended for repeat offenders)----
5. Reports go to the tribunal.

I feel like I addressed the whole not wanting immediate punishment thing.

Also, the statement "You can't control what someone else does so don't let them control you." is factually and purposefully incorrect. 1 person on a team can, in fact, lose it for the rest of the team. Them being allowed to play if they're a troll is controlling what others are doing.


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Vanitius

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12-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saysay View Post
so now people would be able to kick me for playing heimer and ap ez.. no thanks
They might be able to kick you for that, but you wouldn't be punished for it.

Besides the fact, why would you want to play heimer in ranked? Unless it's just an easy counter lane, which a lot of people pay attention to.


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Jumpster

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12-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanitius View Post
How may 4-man premades do you know playing solo/duo queue?

Way to read the post.
well if there is a 4 player premade team, I wonder who is going t fill in that empty slot. Maybe a solo player? Hmm? Yeah its a solo queue player who will be trolled by the other 4 and reported if that player doesn't do what they want.


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Saysay

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12-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanitius View Post
They might be able to kick you for that, but you wouldn't be punished for it.

Besides the fact, why would you want to play heimer in ranked? Unless it's just an easy counter lane, which a lot of people pay attention to.
because I enjoy playing him, win or lose. He is one of the champions that was created, if he wasn't meant for ranked then Riot would remove him.


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Mensen

Junior Member

12-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanitius View Post
I can forgive all of this except: "Period between successfully being matchmade and getting into a game is detrimentally increased" being matched with a troll on your team is not effective matchmaking. That's not to say it's Riot's fault, but it's certainly not your responsibility to play with a troll on your team.

You cannot stop people from trolling proactively. The problem is not that people are trolling, the problem is that their trolling affects other's gameplay. Something directly against the summoner's code. That is what I'm trying to prevent.
It's interesting.

The other night, I was watching Dyrus stream, and it was during the champion select. As the champion select progressed, one of the players on his team picked jungle Nunu. He said it himself, that if he was "tryhard" he would dodge, solely because he does not believe Nunu to be a strong jungle pick.

Now, what does that mean for your vote-kick system?

It means if you play a character people do not believe to be optimal, you can be vote-kicked and forced to re-queue(which for some people, takes a LONG time), and you are also forcing the other players on the opposing team to re-ban, re-pick, etc.

For clarification purposes, this is what i was talking about "Period between successfully being matchmade and getting into a game is detrimentally increased"

Players are found, clumped together, but the time it takes for the game to actually start is increased because of the continual vote-kick.


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Vanitius

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12-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jumpster View Post
well if there is a 4 player premade team, I wonder who is going t fill in that empty slot. Maybe a solo player? Hmm? Yeah its a solo queue player who will be trolled by the other 4 and reported if that player doesn't do what they want.
Go try queueing up with a 4 man team in Ranked Solo/Duo queue. Let me know how that goes for you.


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Vanitius

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12-24-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mensen View Post
It's interesting.

The other night, I was watching Dyrus stream, and it was during the champion select. As the champion select progressed, one of the players on his team picked jungle Nunu. He said it himself, that if he was "tryhard" he would dodge, solely because he does not believe Nunu to be a strong jungle pick.

Now, what does that mean for your vote-kick system?

It means if you play a character people do not believe to be optimal, you can be vote-kicked and forced to re-queue(which for some people, takes a LONG time), and you are also forcing the other players on the opposing team to re-ban, re-pick, etc.

For clarification purposes, this is what i was talking about "Period between successfully being matchmade and getting into a game is detrimentally increased"

Players are found, clumped together, but the time it takes for the game to actually start is increased because of the continual vote-kick.
Let me start by saying the only thing I have against Nunu jungle is that he's not the strongest ganker (which is probably why Dyrus doesn't like him). But he's got decent clear times, can counter well, and good utility mid/late game.

But again, you're assuming that 2 other people are going to agree with Dyrus in that situation and vote to kick as well.

I don't foresee that happening often. I've sat in champ select plenty of times and seen people try to go something like sion mid, or ap yi mid. Something that can work, but I just don't think it does that often when people are actually trying. I've said "that's a bad idea" in chat. And no one agreed with me.

So again, I don't disagree that people will try this. I just don't think people will be kicked for it very often.

Edited to expand a bit:

The problem you're addressing is with people's attitudes towards the meta. Not a flaw in this system.

Why would you want to play with a team if 3 or all of the other people on it are going to have a negative attitude towards your pick the entire game?

What are you losing by being kicked for this reason? You're not going to punished by the tribunal, and there is no dodge timer.