Looking for Sejuani Feedback

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Alkncas

Junior Member

12-20-2012

My thoughts on Sejuani is that I like what her kit does, but I think the main problems stem from being very item dependent and having a slow start no matter where you play her.

From my experiences if I can get a full build I'm very hard to kill and can keep people almost in place at the right time for a nice set up for the team and I have constant harass with northern winds on people who cannot escape me. Usually though I can't get that full build and I either die so fast I'm irrelevant or I have to back out of a fight before northern winds can really have a big effect.

I think one of the things that makes Sejuani a little binary (with more misses than hits) is that no matter where you put her she has a slow start, put her top lane and she can't trade with any of the usual top laners, put her bottom support and she needs good team work (hard to get with random people) or an enemy to really step out of position for her slow to have a big effect. Arguably the best place for her is the jungle, which she eventually does great with but it still takes 3-4 levels to get a good clear time and level 6 for reliable ganks.

As a person who likes going "full tank" I think this mixture of a slow start and dependency on items to be tanky is the main problem with Sejuani, a slow start no matter where I go and a race to get the durability I need means I have an uphill battle from the start to be threatening. If I can get my build everything is fine for a tank, but by the time I can really start making gold Team fights are around the corner and my place is the front lines to get hit instead of the AD carry, weather I have my gear or not.
I wouldn't mind seeing various numbers tweaked and skills altered a bit but for what they do I haven't had problems with her skills, just surviving long enough to put them to their best use.

TLDR: Skills feel fine to me just needs tweaks, my main problem comes form slow start combined with being very dependent on items for tankyness.


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Thessalonike

Senior Member

12-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garband View Post

--As stated before.. Leona has 3x hard CC -- Q,E,R. Sejuani has 1x hard CC -- R. Soft CC is much less desired in League because of the huge mobility creep (I'm slowed? Watch as I arcane shift/flash/wall/own cc/etc away!).
In all fairness an immobilize or snare like Z-blade is soft cc not hard cc so Leona really only has Daybreak and Solar Flare. Z-blade and Daybreak are single target while Arctic and Perma are multi target capable.

Quote:
--Sejuani's ult is actually quite ridiculous. The size of the AoE is massive, and it's throw range is extremely long ; Leona's ult slows harder than Sejuani can even with Permafrost if you don't land the stun, or stuns in an AoE for almost as long as Sejuani can on a single target. Oh yeah, and it's cast range is longer than Sejuani's.
Again, in all fairness Leona Ult slows harder but including Permafrost as you did the duration is half as long and back to your previous quote if we compare the preferred hard cc Leona has a dismal 100 unit diameter, so even with a 50 unit advantage in range Sejuani can actually catch a champion in a stun at a further range than Leona.

Quote:
----Leona can initiate from 700 range 20% more often than Sejuani (E vs Q). Leona can initiate from 1200 range 40% more often (technically 100% more often since Sejuani's ult is 1150 ;p). Leona can apply her hardest CC 37% more often than Sejuani can (Q vs E). And lastly, Sejuani can only become moderately more offensive 29% more than Leona can become super defensive.
One final fairness, your percentages seem to assume 100% combat time with endless mana. That just doesn't happen.

Then other thing with your 700 range initiation. Leona has a cast time on Z-blade... and Sejuani's ult pops at max range if it hits nobody.


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Meddler

Lead Champion Designer

12-20-2012
5 of 38 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raviance View Post
Just curious, after the bump in armor and the additional second to Northern Winds is it possible that everything tested internally may be viewed as op and result in no additional changes? Or is it believed internally that Sejuani does need something else?
Balance isn't our only focus here. Power wise Sejuani's arguably in an ok spot at the moment if played optimally/against the right match ups. We're also looking at things like thematic cohesion with gameplay (should the boar or flail do a bit more for example), counter play (is it too binary based off which champions she's against, amongst other things) and visual readability (who's debuffed by what, which targets are taking how much damage etc).


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Thessalonike

Senior Member

12-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
Balance isn't our only focus here. Power wise Sejuani's arguably in an ok spot at the moment if played optimally/against the right match ups. We're also looking at things like thematic cohesion with gameplay (should the boar or flail do a bit more for example), counter play (is it too binary based off which champions she's against, amongst other things) and visual readability (who's debuffed by what, which targets are taking how much damage etc).
OK, thank you for the response.


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Ginga

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Recruiter

12-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
Balance isn't our only focus here. Power wise Sejuani's arguably in an ok spot at the moment if played optimally/against the right match ups. We're also looking at things like thematic cohesion with gameplay (should the boar or flail do a bit more for example), counter play (is it too binary based off which champions she's against, amongst other things) and visual readability (who's debuffed by what, which targets are taking how much damage etc).
YES!!!!

I was starting to wonder whether all the threads made addressing her boar was made in vain...

The thread is a tad outdated since it judged her from S2. The the main idea still stands.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginga View Post
In short...what's the deal with giving her a giant boar if her kit might as well exist without the boar around? And don't rework her model, I know some people hate sexy champions, but giving her Leona's level of armour completely erases all uniqueness about her and completely misses the point of being a barbarian.
Thematically, her kit would work just as well with or without her boar. Nothing about her kit makes use of the boar. In fact, she might fit a bit better without the boar to reflect how squishy she is as far as tanks go. But don't remove the boar, make her kit accommodate her model, no the other way around.


As for her flail...I guess you can say her kit completely wastes the concept of a flail as well. You could replace it with an axe or a really long sword and nothing would change. She'd still throw it for her R, and she merely swings it as an AA. Nothing about her kit makes use of what defines a flail.

But her boar is the main issue.


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C2K123

Senior Member

12-20-2012

I like Sejuani's kit. She is a fun champion to play. There is nothing wrong with her skillset IMO.

What I would like to see is perhaps givving Sejuani something of a "tank" buff when being attacked by characters she has hit with frost and/or permafrost.


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Thessalonike

Senior Member

12-20-2012

Sejuani and her model.

First remove the shield and massive flail. Replace them with two smaller flails of the same basic design. Blue glowing stone/gem (obviously magical) with the same spiked bands around them.

Auto Attack: She can now attack with either hand which could tighten up the AA animation. Smaller item could help as well.
Q: Make Bristle more animated in the charge possible swinging tusks side to side on minion/monster collision. On champion collision Sejuani does overhand down and outward swings with both flails. After all the greatest champions in the world should not fear a pig.
W: Sejuani spins one flail to call the winds. The stone/gem in that flail will glow more intense.
E: The stones/gems will glow intense in both flails bursting with energy and fade back to normal.
R: Sejuani slams the flails together in front of her. When they connect a wall/ball/chunk of magical ice flies forward instead of the weapon. Magical glow as usual.

Attach magical icy blue particals to affected enemies. The same hue as the flail stone/gems.

Now the flails are magical and more obviously so. She uses them to call her abilities more notably so. They are physical weapons second magic first. She loses the shield and hopefully the impression that she needs one.


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Fairness

Senior Member

12-20-2012

I think enemies affected with frost should have a particle similar to the new frozen heart thing. Sometimes I think that the enemy I'm focusing is affected with frost but it's actually someone else so I end up not permafrosting the intended target.

I think her model's fine, maybe a bit more armour? I know it makes her tough having a bikini in such cold weather but she'd look even tougher with armour. I think the boar and flail are fine actually. I love the satisfaction I get with using Q, and the satisfaction I get when throwing my flail for a perfect glacial prison.

Other than that, contrary to what other people think, I think she's in a pretty good spot balance-wise with her only weakness being early game tankiness and the cooldown on her Q is just a tad too long.


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SoBeNirvana

Adjudicator

12-20-2012

Here's a cool thematic change I just thought of.

How about when her W's up, Sejuani spins her flail around her to create an ice tornado.

While it's active, the boar could auto-attack in her stead.

It kind of justifies both the boar and the flair in terms of theming.


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Ervex

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Senior Member

12-20-2012

1) To have Q as the initiate is truthfully nice to start a fight or anything. The W and E has their purposes as combos when ganking as it is her shine with her Ult.

2) If Q is her initiate skill of stopping right after laning phase, she can't be the chaser. Stacking health to make her the tank even though she's a tank to start with, she's squishy regardless. An indication for the Ult range and possible slow area would be nice as well when needed to calculate the timing when needed is a nice suggestion.

3) Doing some tweaks on the passive would be able to notice during teamfights allowing it scale by levels starting with 5 or 10% to the max of 30% or 40% so it's noticeable. Increasing the Atk Spd for Sej can be an option to keep her w/i speed w/ other junglers.

In overall, the current Sej is only useful and noted b/c of her Ult. In laning phase, if she misses her Q, she's has no meaning to shine even though her kit revolves around her passive.