Suggestion to lore writers: You're doing a TERRIBLE job at the "shades of gray" thing

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HerbaNoctis

Senior Member

12-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cerubois View Post
It's a bit of a step-up from raising taxes to forcing bodily modification.
I see you're unfamiliar with the current Republican party...


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Tsaalyo

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12-16-2012

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Originally Posted by HerbaNoctis View Post
I see you're unfamiliar with the current Republican party...
Viktor has binders full of android women.


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HerbaNoctis

Senior Member

12-16-2012

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Originally Posted by Tsaalyo View Post
Viktor has binders full of android women.
Speaking of which, why is there no Viktor/Orianna action anywhere?


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Vongeo

Senior Member

12-17-2012

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Originally Posted by HerbaNoctis View Post
Speaking of which, why is there no Viktor/Orianna action anywhere?
Cuz her and blitz are hot and heavy.


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Lithillya

Junior Member

12-18-2012

Quote:
The use of child soldiers? That could have been awesome, Lux's lore, but you guys didn't even have the Demacian guards forcibly recruit her. You had them say that it was not necessary, and you had her PARENTS force the issue, instead. So the child soldier argument really holds no water.
That speaks to how Demacia is, and why they aren't exactly the bastion of righteousness that some people seem to view them as. They're inductrinated from a young age to consider themselves as nothing, that they only live for the state. Demacia first, everything else second. Giving over their kids to be brainwashed as well? A natural thing, despite how much the plead and beg to not go.
The difference between Demacia and Noxus, is that Noxus are upfront and transparent in their less than nice ways of doing things. In Demacia, it's all behind the fascade.


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Dpaladinx

Senior Member

12-18-2012

I think Riot does a good job handling the "shades of grey" idea and with the "antihero/antivillain" characters. The philosophical beliefs of Demacia and Noxus may portray Demacia as the good guys and Noxus as the bad guys. However, when you look into HOW Demacia enforce their philosophy of honor and justice, you'll realize they aren't so different than Noxus enforcing their philosophy of social darwinism. Keep in mind that Demacia does have enforced conscription, they don't allow retreat, they execute their enemies, and strictly see the world strictly "black and white." Anyone who has dark powers or manifest powers that is considered "evil" WILL be hunted down by Demacia. Demacia happens to have an authoritarian government like Noxus.

Also, note that not all Noxians are despicable, they are just ruthless. And example will be Darius, who can be more or less seen as an "anti-villain." Darius have no selfish intentions and wants to restore the name and glory of Noxus by eliminating corrupt officials.

Another example will be Talon. Talon is a ruthless assassin. However, he was spared by General Du Couteau and sees him as an honorable and worthy opponent (and thus which is why he works with General Du Couteau). Talon has no selfish motives for himself. When General Du Couteau disappeared, Talon decides to search for him rather than reclaiming his freedom (thus dedicating his show of loyality to General Du Couteau).

And let's not get started with "people with dark powers doesn't mean they're bad people" (Nasus, Kassadin, and Morganna).

How Riot handled the "shades of grey" thing very well in the lore is the main reason why I'm suggesting a champion who noticed the flaws and tyranny of Demacian society and even starts a violent revolution in a colony owned by Demacia.


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Xulsigae

Senior Member

12-20-2012

Demacia seems like a cleaner place to live at any rate.
Less likely to get knifed in the back too.


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Snes C

Senior Member

12-20-2012

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Originally Posted by DrTemptragon View Post
Except Zaun respects the rights of all sentients (Blitzcrank is a citizen there first) while Piltover is incredibly restrictive about technological progress and it's effects on the environment and Demacia is a stratified dictatorship while Noxus allows all citizens to advance.

It's more grey that you're portraying. Plus, you don't judge a nation by it's people's actions; Signed is a monster that commits warcrimes, but Viktor just wants to be left alone and do his research. Darius respects strength of all kinds, but Draven is a showboat.
Actually, Viktor wants to advance his agenda and isn't above using force to accomplish his goals, as seen in Jayce's lore.


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Xoripan

Senior Member

12-20-2012

I remember reading that Riven's lore stated that she refused to kill in name of Demacia, but they changed it to Noxus... Why?


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Tsaalyo

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12-21-2012

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Originally Posted by SnesController View Post
Actually, Viktor wants to advance his agenda and isn't above using force to accomplish his goals, as seen in Jayce's lore.
This is the problem. Riot says one thing, and does another, imo. They try to claim it's a matter of shades of gray, that neither side is truly good or evil, but then LET'S INVADE IONIA AND BUTCHER CIVILIANS AND MELT VILLAGES BECAUSE POWER. Demacia has never engaged in a war of conquest, while Noxus has never done anything 'good' for any nation. If the evils perpetuated in Noxus were only done by a few psychopaths and were not the true will of Noxus, why don't we have something to show that, like Noxus apologizing or giving gold or something? All we have ever had post-war on the subject, that I remember, is Katarina saying that Noxus was doing Ionia a favor by trying to take them over. Heil, Kat.

Or in the case of Viktor, perfect example! He's supposed to be not good or evil, just trying to further his own philosophy. His work was stolen, he should hate that sort of thing. Yet, what is the one piece of non-bio lore we have of him? Viktor acting like a goddamn Ninja Turtles villain, trying to steal Piltover's science with his crew of Foot Clan. It's like a bad joke. Half the time, I can't really take the lore seriously, because the 'bad' things in the lore are to such an absurd degree that it's like a comic book story.

I remember Riot saying part of this is because they want it to be a match of good and evil for the people who don't read the lore and only play the game for its face value, and that's fine. But for those of us who read the lore, where exactly is the 'good' of Noxus? The only things I've ever seen people able to argue are completely ignoring the lore that's actually happened and arguing strictly from a point of head in the clouds philosophy. That's fine, that's valid, but at the end of the day, I can't find someone who can seriously, with a straight face, say that Demacia and Noxus are depicted as equally good or evil, that it's all perfectly gray. It's not. And after a while, it gets pretty irritating.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xoripan View Post
I remember reading that Riven's lore stated that she refused to kill in name of Demacia, but they changed it to Noxus... Why?
It's because Riven's original lore was that she was exiled from Demacia for opposing the mistreatment of Noxian prisoners. But this lore was changed to her being an exile from Noxus, because it was decided that her original lore was not something Demacia would do.


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