•AMAZING full-length analysis on why Zed should be buffed•

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Thane Soren

Recruiter

12-18-2012

THIS IS NOT MINE! It was written by someone else who clearly knows the problems with Zed

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob the bomber View Post
Honestly Zed is one of the most underwhelming champions I have bought since Karma on day one.

The thing that unfortunate is that he is an AD caster that runs on energy

While all ap casters get to use mana to use their abilities, and spam them late game when they have chalice and infinite amounts of mana to use.

Not to say that energy does not regenerate quickly, but not only do you have to wait for freakishly long cool-downs on your ult and clone, but you have to wait for your energy to regenerate back after using 2-3 spells right after each other.

This would not be so bad but one of the more costly spells, your clone, is the only way to disengage from a fight. Not only leaving you without a clone to max your Q's damage, but it leaves you without Ult and full damage.

I would not be concerned, however since he is a AD caster. Which mean anyone with a little armor makes his spell ratios suck. Yeah sure they do a lot of damage... but with one cloth armor you can negate a lot of his early harass. His spells unlike AP casters with spell vamp do not give him any health return for the harass, so if you get caught or hit back you are worse off than when you started.

The fact that the targeted person in his ult can still move makes it very hard to have consistent 1K damage as they can just flash out of the middle making any spell combo worthless.

Late game becomes a fight to either buy more damage and die fast, or buy health and do no damage.

The CC on his E is very laughable, I would remove the conditional 2 hits because if you are that close why would you use your clone? Wouldn't they just flash away? I mean if your enemy is just stupid and sits there after you W E combo them they should die, but not being able to slow them down so that you can flash in with W and combo them makes setting up plays from the jungle incredibly hard... he was introduced as a jungle/top not a mid so why set his kit to be mid only? SO it should always be at 60% CC on E.

The range on his teleporter is WAY TO SHORT- I understand that you want to make Zed a sneaky assassin dude and "that is why I originally bought him" but the range on his teleporter is way to short to pull of amazing sneaky moves.

Example 1: top lane I will put a shadow at the tip of the bush next to the tower and by the time i make it to the turret, the indicator has already gone red.

I can understand that this could allow him to disengage from any situation, but for how squishy he is HE NEEDS SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

I feel like zed ratios are set too low for how much damage "he could have" and I think that most of the problems are the ult dealing multiplied damage in three seconds, while the whole three second delay damage is cool it makes getting kills and getting out really really really really really really hard. SO I am all in favor of nerfing his ult to make the rest of his skills... well useful

The cool down on his ult is really long and it has all of his damage. I feel like Zed is naked when I do not have ult. Where if I was playing Gragus or Varus I would not care if my ult was down to do damage.

Yes the Q does a lot of damage with the shadow, but if you miss you have to wait at least 12 seconds before even considering getting close to the champion you are laning with.



I would suggest redoing his ult and instead of focusing on the multiplied damage, I would revamp it to more AOE damage.

With that said the range on his ult is not very good. WW has longer range and his suppresses his target. It really needs to be buffed to 700+ range


His passive was great for the last Meta, but when you have items like Blade of the Ruined King it makes his passive somewhat weak. It does magic damage which is nice, but is it more more useful than percent Physical damage that he life-steal from? His passive needs to be changed to something else, or needs NO CD and a slight de-buff.

I mean when you have new champions like VI, where she is in the same boat as Zed but all of her moves use mana, have lower CD, and has a FREAKING GREAT PASSIVE SHIELD SO SHE CANNOT BE FOCUSED TO DEATH YOU WONDER WHY EVEN MAKE ZED, BECAUSE RIGHT NOW HE IS ONE CRUEL JOKE

I have had many good games as zed in normal, but anytime I played ranked everyone knows to focus me because all he is is damage.

Even if I do manage to kill a champion, I still have four left trying to murder me and wait.... my Q is down... So then I die

I think that there is a lot of backwash from pros that do not want to deal with a game changing champion like zed, if he was to be fixed.

Not that on OP champion changes the game, but when compared to Darius, Diana and Draven. Zed is not playable in tournaments, I have yet to see a pro player try to play this character as his main and I do not think you ever will because his ratios suck, his CD sucks, and the only time he does damage is with his ult and that is an instant death if the other team is paying attention.

Even then do not even get me started on how much MORE gold you have to spend to get this character off the ground...

So please fix him, I like him a lot, but he cost me 500 Elo trying to come up with legitimate build and composition for him. ( After I spent 60 games on normal)
ANOTHER ONE!!!!

҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flayne View Post
I have played over 40 games with Zed (not ranked), and mostly in rows having good and bad games. These are my final pro/con results from my time and analysis of this champion:

Pros:
- Can harass decently Q and W if said user is good at skill shots
- Can escape ganks easily if W is available
- Can execute Tanky opponents with ease mid-late game thanks to multiplied damage factor
- Quite decent farming ability

(Pros end here)

Cons:

- Energy costs are far too high, making him vulnerable after a single combo

- Energy regain (related with first point) is very little and very conditional for double Q hit or double E hit.

- Too conditional and difficult to hit double Es only to apply a slightly stronger slow and no extra damage like Q.

- Q hitbox unreasonably tiny/thin.

- Easily countered with normal play logic (any champion). Examples: Waiting for Zed to use his ulti on you and then flash into ally position for a free kill. Running in a straight line (effortlessly) to avoid single or double hit from Q. Never stand next to his shadow incase of ulti + double E combo.

- Ratios are relatively low in comparison to other assassin type champions
- Low movement speed
- Very Squishy
- No sustain
- High CD on abilities
- Heavily reliant on Ulti for damage
- Almost entirely single unit assassin
- Ulti takes too long to deal damage, making it possible to be saved by an incoming ally to heal/shield before timer goes off
- Unreasonably difficult and forceful decision making usage on W, either escape or use for double Q damage or chase after ulti ticks. Results = no decent escape mechanism.

(Cons end here)


Conclusion:

Zed's kit as it is now is completely contradictory to the role he is supposed to fill and its own functions. Namely his W has too long a CD and promotes high difficulty decision making with high risks and mediocre reward.
Escape, chase or double Q/E.
His Energy costs vs Energy regain are currently the most unbalanced/weak out of all the energy champions by a dramatic scale.
He is far too reliant on his ulti to be of use in any team comp.
He extremely item reliant, with no farm he cannot be of use and therefore if shutdown early game in lane, will not be able to recover late game. This is also why Jungle Zed is very unpopular and hardly seen at least on my account.

The question: Is he worth playing?

My answer: Yes if you want to have fun, no if you dislike high skill cap, high risk and low reward champions.
That is paradoxical;
because to have fun, one either likes to win or at least have fought a hard battle and went down with a great fight.
Experiencing both of these are difficult when playing Zed.
YET ANOTHER ONE!

҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skaarrjj View Post
The only fantastic Zed play I saw in all of those asian tournaments is where Zed ulted Ashe to avoid her arrow. And I don't think he even killed her.

Every Zed I've seen doesn't do well in terms of getting kills. Even his ability to assist is not that great. Zed cannot reliably stick to his foe when his ultimate is cast. That would not be a problem in of itself, but his ultimate also does **** damage before rank 3. His Q's are hard to hit, and getting overlapping shadows on his W is too difficult because you'd have to place your shadows in extremely inefficient ways just to get it to hit because of how terrible of a range his E actually is. It doesn't take a Game Analyst at riot to see that Zed needs buffed. Not one game have I been extremely impressed with the asian pro's playing Zed except for dodging Ashes arrow.


Zed should of been able to kill that ashe. Do you know why that didnt happen? Because he missed his Q. I've seen Zed's missing Q's constantly at the professional level of play. That ability is too damn hard to hit with right now. Here's a video of the encounter. (watch at 20:15)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9wI5qnzr4Q

Seriously, Speed up his Q. After witnessing several Q misses from Zed, when the player playing him is obviously very skilled, I can say there's something very wrong. Ashe should NOT of been able to get away from that. At all.
OMG ANOTHER ONE! WE ARE MULTIPLYING!!! (This one is from my bro Kaiser)

҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉

Quote:
Originally Posted by GloriousKaiser View Post
We ask, what is Zed's Job?

-Assasin ( Take out a weak/high priority target)
-Fight after being an assasin.


Does he do this job?

-Yes

Does he do it well?

-Not really

Why can he not do it well?


Zed has a fun innovating kit concept. But the numbers are iffy
He can teleport to a carry, instagib, harass, escape


BUT

Others can do this better
If he fails, it's too taxing on him
Other champions are more forgiving
Zed is not


EXAMPLE

Katarina can poke, Teleport to carry, instagib, harass, escape?


And can do it multiple times. But she isn't penalized as hard if she cannot do it and it's FREE.

Zed however has to wait for energy recovery, and the massive cooldown on his W if you don't level it. (I am comparing them as wholes, not just one ability.)
Because people asked for it, I made MY OWN thoughts on Zed

҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉҉ ҉ ҉ ҉ ҉҉

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reynfall View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ----Name Hidden----- View Post
I agreed at one point, but then I took a closer look at what Zed does and why he could be subjectively perceived as "weak". I then realized he really wasn't, at all. I realized his costs aren't super relevant later, his ability to get to his "optimal state" is very safe and solid, but he can also become super dominant in lane if given the leverage, and he becomes both snowbally and carry-esque material, to add onto having strong role diversity (mid, top, or jungle, he does pretty well in any of these roles). Additionally, he is very effective at amplifying damage on himself makes for a great assassin, and he can fit into both a high objective pressure champion (he chunks dragons really quickly, and can push insanely fast, and God forbid you try to 1v1 him after he's got his core, at the very least he's going to get away clean, but most of the case you're just going to be a greyed-out screen 6 seconds later), or in a teamfighting comp, he can really zone out high priority targets without even needing to stick his neck out too far, just a mere W over the wall if you've conditioned them tells them "I'm not safe".

That and I don't agree with your methods. Badgering the forums with constant bumping, even if you're right, is not the way to go about proving your point, just makes people contempt and not take your opinion seriously, especially when you choose to ignore their arguments. For example, I would normally watch XJ9's streams more often since he jungles with most of my favorite champions (including Zed), but he's such a prick in game and on the forums that it tarnishes what I like about it essentially.
His costs are very relevant when you're based upon spamming your skills with limited and extremely situational returns. Situational returns wouldn't be bad if Q wasn't slower than a snail, and if the returns were a little larger.

Anyone can be super dominant in lane if they were allowed to.

He is very diverse in roles, yes, that's a good thing about him, but at the same time it also brings him down because:

1. Jungle reduces his income, assassins really need money in order to do what they are supposed to do

2. Extremely situational extremely short range slow

3. Extremely short range dash with a casting time

As for top lane:

1. Bruisers are the natural counter to assassins

2. He is weakened because of his role diversity. He is able to roam effectively at the cost of being very predictable and counterable with almost no effort. Putting him in top lane reduces his roaming ability.

3. He can be ganked right out of Red Buff, the slow countering his ridiculously short ranged dash.

As for mid lane:

1. He can be ganked right out of all four blue and red buffs. He is able to help top and bot, though what can he do for them when his tower is always pushed because he is always dead? You could say he can use his W defensively to not get caught or slowed, but the bushes on the sides of mid lane are VERY close to the lane itself. To put it into perspective, Amumu can land his bandage on you from the bush. People with really good reflex blinks can avoid that, however, the casting time on Zed's extremely short range blink brings down even the most supernatural of reaction times.

2. He faces champs with more range than he has unless he uses his W, in which case he's almost literally a sitting duck. He should be able to hit and run with his only ranged ability (Q) however the underpowered speed of the ability severely limits his ability to hit and run, not to mention the relatively brief casting time, you need a lot of set-up if you want to effectively use Q. Therefore, unless you use up your escape to get the slow to have a HOPE of connecting your Q, you're never going to be able to use your range to a higher advantage than your opponent's, especially if they are a Malzahar or Ziggs.

The only champ Zed can really 1v1 is himself, and that's only if he uses his ult after the enemy Zed uses his ult, and that's only if the enemy Zed is extremely stupid. Zed's 1v1ing capabilities are expanded if he builds a BotrK but then his damage is exceptionally lessened outside of his ult.

I don't think you, or anyone other than Riot is in a position to tell me what the community things about bumps. I've seen people that approve of them and people that do not.

I'm not sure where you got the downvote from. My guess is it's because of the "Zed's costs are irrelevant" part of your post, which was blatantly wrong.


Please buff Zed.


@People getting angry at the bumps, this thread has upvotes and Zed needs buffs, if this wasn't a cause worth fighting for then it would already have been locked by now. Don't complain.


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Mo00se

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Senior Member

12-18-2012

zed pwns if played right, l2play


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Thane Soren

Recruiter

12-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo00se View Post
zed pwns if played right, l2play
1. Don't be a dick

2. His skill cap isn't rewarded. It doesn't matter if you play right, or even wrong, because if you get lucky (just like the Zed in the tournament a few days ago) you'll be able to do well regardless.

Playing a champion should not be a flip of a coin.


wait


why am I trying to explain this to you


read the OP you ignoramus.


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AcrobaticApricot

Senior Member

12-18-2012

I didn't read it but he is balanced.

Since this post is on the front page I guess I'll edit it to include why I think Zed is balanced.

Zed has been used repeatedly in tournaments, which puts him above many champions in this game. Additionally, since Zed is relatively new he's a champion that had to be brought into competitive play rather than one who has always been around; consider Irelia, where all competitive top laners (except Dyrus lol) play her and play her well, whereas teams had to make a special effort to include Zed in their lineup. I think it is awfully egoistic to assume you, Joe Average, know better than the best teams in the world.

I've watched a lot of high Elo games recently on Scarra and Wings's streams (I love commentary) and Zed is picked quite frequently there and it seems to me that he is extremely good at bursting high priority targets, I'm not a Zed player so I don't know how to play him but Scarra and Wings and the others at high Elo seem to be able to absolutely destroy the enemy team's squishies. Now, if Zed is UP at lower levels of play because he has a high skillcap, that would explain why a lot of people think he is, but champions have never been buffed based on how hard they are to play. Look at Orianna. High skillcap, high skill floor, extremely good AP mid when mastered. But she has a bad win rate in solo queue because of how hard she is. If Orianna was ever buffed, she would dominate at higher levels of play.

Personally, I believe that AD casters as a class of champion are overpowered at the moment. I think they were not necessarily bad before the Cleaver came along, for example Riven and Talon were both decent champions and now they are too strong. With a champion like Zed, I think without the new itemization (flask actually has a lot to do with it as well since melee mid laners suffer from poke at early levels) he would be underpowered and if Riot ever nerfs AD casters he will definitely need a buff. But in his current state, he's one of the few AD casters that is actually balanced.


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iKardia

Senior Member

12-18-2012

why zed when you can talon/khaz/pantheon/teemo


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Thane Soren

Recruiter

12-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcrobaticApricot View Post
didn't read it. he is balanced.
This is exactly why you need to read it.


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LotusBlue

Senior Member

12-18-2012

You spam "buff zed" threads too often, Reynfall.


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Kristoferman

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Senior Member

12-18-2012

I support this cause. I played zed when he was free and I really liked his kit but felt like late game, I did nothing.
Bump for justice!


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Sheer

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Senior Member

12-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by iKardia View Post
why zed when you can talon/khaz/pantheon/teemo
cause he throws kennen shuriken without the stun... wait


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Thane Soren

Recruiter

12-18-2012

Bump for justice