The one thing that DotA has that League doesn't

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Fire Lord Iroh

Senior Member

12-18-2012

Appropriate itemization that allows almost every champion to be viable.

This is not a thread saying that DotA is superior to League of Legends or that Riot is doing a bad job. What I am trying to get at is that in DotA items are available for all sorts of roles, whereas in League new items are more aimed toward strengthening that which is already good.

Is this bad?

No, but it's not good either. Adding new items to strengthen characters that are already strong pushes them ahead of the weaker characters. This makes it more difficult to bring the weaker heroes up to par with the strong. Sure kit balance has a large impact on this, but something noticed across the board as a whole is that while some heroes may have weaker kits than others in DotA, it is made up for through appropriate itemization.

People often times think that the solution to making characters better would be buffing their kits directly, but that is not so. Adding an item that gives them something they need can go a long way into balancing them overall.

Also I know that DotA does not exactly represent the epitome of how to make a character because I know that a lot of them are pretty ridiculous (looking at you Faceless Void), but the concept of providing enough unique itemization to the point where each champion can get the things they need remains the same.

I know that the S3 patch just arrived and that Riot is hard at work balancing the patch. Riot, you're doing a good job so keep it up! However, hopefully, once everything in this patch is more balanced, maybe you can take a look into this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MathMage View Post
Lord Housewife, your OP would be vastly improved if you gave some examples to support your thesis, rather than just stating your thesis and assuming its truth, so that you can spend 3/4 of the post saying...well, nothing interesting.

Let's take Riot's S3 itemization changes as an example. How, in your opinion, did they make changes that strengthened that which was already good, as opposed to strengthening champs that were not good before the patch?

Because I look at Black Cleaver and see a rejuvenation of overlooked champs like Talon, Pantheon, Urgot, and MF (to be fair, this comes along with champs like Riven, Renekton, and Lee Sin who were strong before the change). I look at Runaan's Hurricane and see love for previously maligned ranged champs with heavy onhit aspects, like Varus and Twitch. I also see changes to Wit's End, Phage, Trinity Force, and Ionic Spark (to Statikk Shiv, basically) as penalizing previously strong champs like Jax, Irelia, Ezreal, and Shen.

So does Riot really make item changes to strengthen that which is already strong? Does your thesis hold in the face of recent evidence?
Alright, I'll start with something that almost everyone knows.

Sheepstick is a very strong item in DotA, providing a unique disable that, contrary to its name, turns your target into a chicken with 100 movement speed for 3.5 seconds.

This renders them unable to do anything except for move. Although this item provides intelligence, a mage stat, it is actually beneficial on more than just mages as it provides you with a bit of strength and agility as well as the amazing effect.

Moving on, Lothar's Edge (now known as Shadow Blade) is an item that provides you with stealth for 12 seconds as well as extra movement speed, attack damage, and attack speed. If you attack to break the stealth, you deal an additional 150 damage on that hit.

This item serves many purposes across many different roles. Assassination, escape, catching up to fleeing enemies, and protection during channeled abilities are some of the things this item helps in carrying out. One of the most notable examples is Crystal Maiden activating this item after activating her ultimate. This ensures that she is be able to deal as much damage as possible with her ult provided that the enemy team does not have Dust, Gem, Vision Wards, or a level 3 Necronomicon. Although Crystal Maiden is a caster and this item provides stats you would expect to find on a carry, the active alone makes this item an interesting and fairly good choice for her.

Now for the infamous BKB (Black King Bar). This item places you in what is called the Avatar state (not joking) which renders you completely immune to all magical abilities. Whether it is a heal from your allied Chen or the Finger of Death from Lion, neither will affect you. The duration of the buff and cooldown is lowered every time the item is used.

This item is THE item that makes melee carries effective. By being rendered completely immune to magical abilities, a large amount of CC is stopped from affecting you. This means that during this time you are able to get up close to the enemy without having to worry about their CC (there are abilities that do go through this item though as there is something known as Superior Magical Abilities in DotA which penetrates magical immunity). However, this item does not just serve the purpose of strengthening a carry's ability to fight. It can also be used in a similar fashion as Lothar's Edge, to provide safe channeling on characters like Crystal Maiden and Witch Doctor. However, something else that isn't as widely known is that if Terrorblade ults while this item was active, his health is unaffected. This means that if you are 100% health and your ally is about to die, you can activate this item and ult. Normally your health would be swapped, but with BKB both you and your ally would be at 100%.

Another worth mentioning is Blink Dagger which is basically like flash except longer range and a 14 second CD, but is disabled for 3 seconds after taking damage from an enemy hero or Roshan. It also costs mana to use like most other activated items.

This item is good on many heroes despite not providing any stats whatsoever. This is due to the fact that the effect is powerful and provides great mobility around the map.


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Shaboopie

Senior Member

12-18-2012

Expected a thread about the sheepstick.


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SlashingAxe

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Senior Member

12-18-2012

Invoker /thread


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CragBlade

Senior Member

12-18-2012

Unique itemization doesnt work in League. Look at Viktor and Rengar.

Hurricane and Ravenous Hydra are probably the best and safest versions of unique itemization. Melee/Ranged restrictions.


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Turbo Sawka

Senior Member

12-18-2012

any proof of champions that cant be viable because of current items or is this thread just a desperate call for attention?


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Fire Lord Iroh

Senior Member

12-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaboopie View Post
Expected a thread about the sheepstick.
Sheepstick is nice, but there are times where I wish I had a ****ing Orchid Malevolence in this game hahaha


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Fire Lord Iroh

Senior Member

12-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo Sawka View Post
any proof of champions that cant be viable because of current items or is this thread just a desperate call for attention?
Melee carries still see no play and get destroyed when they are played?


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LostLaneWonGame

Senior Member

12-18-2012

Pop BKB

Channel anything worry-free


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SearZocom

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Senior Member

12-18-2012

actually as a dota player myself i am sad to inform you that there is a tier of champions in dota that are basically unplayable past a pub level.

Visage and tauren are two who immediately come to mind other names such as medusa and slark come to mind.


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Fire Lord Iroh

Senior Member

12-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalGiant View Post
Unique itemization doesnt work in League. Look at Viktor and Rengar.
Viktor doesn't have a choice and Rengar got nerfed for like the 3rd time so your argument is pretty flawed.


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