@Morello, can you explain the design philosophy used for nerfing champions?

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Ben Caxton

Senior Member

12-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Yes, we're not always right. I think this is a clear base of where we need to buff.
I would hazard to say that you would be wrong less often if you made incremental changes or changed fewer variables at a time.


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Morello

Lead Designer

12-17-2012
13 of 32 Riot Posts

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Originally Posted by Rossingol View Post
You know, for a second I saw the words "Morello" and "Volibear" at the same time and I was really excited to see what you had to say about Volibear. Sadly, there was nothing there!

Do you have any words about our favorite bear? Like why he was cast aside for a Christmas skin, or why the massive topic about Volibear (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2182697) has been ignored by the Reds?

Is he really ignored because no one plays him or something?
He's a big problem to me, because he exemplfies metagolem play - ie either he's straight stronger than you and always wins, or he's weaker than you and does nothing. Irelia and Jax suffer from this too.

It's a bigger issue to me overall, but not as high on the priority list (some others need the design attention first).


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BigBenClockTower

Senior Member

12-17-2012

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Originally Posted by imweasel09 View Post
I wanted to make sure you knew for certain that this is an issue,, and I hope you're still reading this. This is a picture of me Auto attacking the bigger golem at the very bottom camp, and the W orbs not going off because of the god awful new AA range.
They procced without touching anything before. If anything, I'd view it less a nerf then a bug fix, as unpopular as my opinion will be.


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Yaddar

Senior Member

12-17-2012

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Originally Posted by Morello View Post
for example, you remove the little gameplay that Heimerdinger's E has already - that skill has almost 0 gameplay associated to it at all. In this case, that would buff the character, but then make us feel bad if he ever was popular..
wait, what? Heimerdingers E is slow enough to require a lot of skill to land, and you have to time it VERY RIGHT in order to get the stun going... given the fact that Heimer has no escape mechanism and there are lots of champs with blinks, dashes, jumps, etc, the E provides a lot of gameplay to the champ... they might be able to get to you, but if you are intellingent, you can disable them for your turrets to work.. you don't have turrets? too bad, you better start thinging of something to do after that disable is over (either the stun or the blind) - that's a lot of gameplay interacton between Q and E if you ask me. The grenade (and the blind/stun) is the one thing that allows Heimer to stay alive (and be useful in teamfights) while allowing his turrets to work... Q and E actually have synergy.


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Ralik098

Senior Member

12-17-2012

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Originally Posted by Morello View Post
He's a big problem to me, because he exemplfies metagolem play - ie either he's straight stronger than you and always wins, or he's weaker than you and does nothing. Irelia and Jax suffer from this too.

It's a bigger issue to me overall, but not as high on the priority list (some others need the design attention first).
How do you go about fixing something like this?


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Morello

Lead Designer

12-17-2012
14 of 32 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Caxton View Post
I would hazard to say that you would be wrong less often if you made incremental changes or changes fewer variables at a time.
But problems of OP champions would linger much longer and lessen variety more. I think (and I'm not sure, but my instinct here) is that I'd rather be wrong more often than let the game stagnate to actual 25 FOTM picks. We sit consistently at ~60 used in tournaments, which is pretty good. By getting better at detailed changes rapidly, we can increase this - I'd like to have our cake and eat it too here.


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Morello

Lead Designer

12-17-2012
15 of 32 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralik098 View Post
How do you go about fixing something like this?
Hehe, I typically go to the rework place for this, but with Volibear, one skill getting some big changes could do the trick.


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ArmySquirrel

Senior Member

12-17-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by lolCatbus View Post
So wait they gonna nerf the **** outta Diana and Rengar, then over the course of a few months slowly de-nerf them so everyone thinks they're fine and dandy again. Sort of makes sense on a psychological scale. Smart idea.
I think the idea is more that something that gets too high on the power scale needs to be brought down quickly for the sake of the game. Like Morello suggests, this doesn't lend well to accuracy, but I guess it gets the power level under control so the game can proceed with what is a balanced variety. Something underpowered isn't going to wreck games like something significantly overpowered is going to.

Also, geeze Morello, you type faster than I do.


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Morello

Lead Designer

12-17-2012
16 of 32 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaddar View Post
wait, what? Heimerdingers E is slow enough to require a lot of skill to land, and you have to time it VERY RIGHT in order to get the stun going... given the fact that heimer has no escape mechanism and the e a re lots of champs with blinks, dashes, jumps, etc, the E provides a lot of gameplay to the champ... they might be able to get to you, but if you are intellingent, you can disable them for your turrets to work.. you don't have turrets? too bad, you better start thinging of something to do after that disable is over (either the stun or the blind) - that's a lot of gameplay interacton between Q and E if you ask me. The grenade (and the blind/stun) is the one thing that allows Heimer to stay alive (and be useful in teamfights) while allowing his turrets to work... Q and E actually have synergy.
My apologies - I meant the missiles. That grenade is an awesome skill.


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Alacor

Senior Member

12-17-2012

Morello!!! Forward this to Meddler. =3

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2476754