Myths about Trundle/Karma hate

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Zuphlas

Senior Member

12-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Monkey View Post
a designer would be more apt to shed light on that one.
The only designer I know of working on either of them is Guinsoo - working on Karma. I already don't trust his design judgement to begin with (not saying that he's bad, just that his choices historically are problematic to LoL), but even if we put that aside he doesn't visit the forums. Ever. It's hard to get info from somebody that only ever updates twitter, and I'm sorry but I'm not going to start using twitter just to follow up on something that should be posted here to begin with. I know that probably sounds rude, but that's just how I feel on the issue. He's been working on Karma for what feels like ages, and honestly it's giving me the feeling that this is going to essentially turn into another Eve/Stealth rework situation where we go years without it ever being finished because nobody can decide what works.


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Skaed

Senior Member

12-13-2012

Trundle and Karma are not played much because they are difficult to fit into the current meta and/or underpowered. I don't think it has much to do with visual appearance - look at Gragas and Urgot...they've each had their time in the sun as far as being banned/picked every game. There are older champions like Sion and Sivir that need visual reworks more desperately.

Trundle is a melee single target auto-attacking champion which is not a great archetype anymore - those AA steroids can't compete with the multiple AD-scaling abilities that many bruisers now have. Also, he has no hard CC or gap closers, and his damage output and tankiness are nothing to write home about. They are each "ok." His pillar ability is unique but very situational and is pretty weak for ganks. Udyr fills the same role better, and even he has fallen way out of favor.

Karma is a support that needs farm, short range, no CC, no real ultimate. Her W is laughable, leaving Q and E as her only real abilities. They would probably still be balanced if they just included the Mantra effect baseline. Visually, I like Karma. I just gave up trying to play her a long time ago.


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Gløry

Senior Member

12-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damoklese View Post
So when anyone brings up Riot's almost criminal negligence of Trundle and Karma.. it always boils down to "well they arent popular, so Riot ignores them".

But that is bull****...absolute bull****. Aside from the fact that Riot is an incredibly successful company that can EASILY afford to give ALL of their champions attention.. it simply ISNT TRUE that Riot ignores unpopular champs.

According to Lolmatches.com, Karma is the 4th least played champion, and Trundle is the 6th least played.

Guess who is played less then either of them?

Galio - 3rd least played champ. 4 skins including a LEGENDARY
Xerath - 2nd least played champ. 3 skins
Poppy - 5th least played champ. 5 skins


Also.. statistically Trundle is only played in 2.25% of matches. That puts Cassiopeia, Rumble, Yorick, Ziggs, Sion, Syndra, Heimer, Zilean, and Sejuani within 1% of him in popularity, and within 2% of Karma.
The thing is, there was a time when many of those character, particular Galio, Sion, Yorick, and Heimer were all a much, much huger part of the game. Galio used to be the centerpiece of press-r-to-win. Sion went through a long fotm period where he just could not be stopped midlane. So did Cass. Yorick and Rumble both had their moments of "OMFG HOW DO WE DEAL WITH THIS TOP?"

Poppy nabbed a bunch of skins back when there weren't nearly as many champions to skin for, and the meta wasn't as solidified as it is today and she could maybe get away with a little more.

There's a few good reasons here and there that these champs got skins and Karma/Trundle havent. Karma never fit into the meta she was born into and Trundle's high sustain jungle-forever-ness went out of style with the s2 jungle change. Sejuani was just always outclassed by Amumu and Malphite, and then Nautilus on his release. She's held back by riot's refusal to -actually- nerf the mummy.

Sadly, these are my three favorite champs. >.< And I'll pretty much never get to buy a cool skin for any of them. Unlike a lot of other champs you've listed, they never had a moment in the sun, they never fit as a piece of a notable teamcomp, they never made a big splash. A champion doesn't have to be eternally popular overall to net a skin--Riot is fine with cashing in on fotms. These people just never had any.


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Unibrownie

Senior Member

12-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Nye View Post
His utility outside of Q leech (which tbh isn't that great late-game besides increasing Trundle's AD damage, since most carries shrug off -40 AD pretty easily), and ult (still pretty useful) is still very powerful, strong use of pillar alone can win games. He's excellent in a poke comp, because the pillar can isolate targets ala Anivia wall and really screw someone up if placed properly (if it's an initiator, trundle can ult them and have his team take him down quickly while the enemy team struggles to follow up being separated by pillar, and turn the fight into a 5v4, if it's a high priority target out of position, even better).
His Rabid Bite actually increases his AD by 40 but steals 20 AD from the target. So it's garbage.

I'm a Trundle main too but he needs some serious help with his kit. I don't even care about Skins or his look.

I just want them to fix his obvious weaknesses.


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Tyrant Zell

Senior Member

12-13-2012

I honestly dont get why trundle isnt played. Ive seen 2 people so far play as Trundle and they wrecked the other team real badddd


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Tonberry King

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12-13-2012

If Trundle had gotten a Grinch Who Stole Christmas type skin, he'd be popular for a little while.


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Trazz

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12-13-2012

Personally I hope they make Trundle uglier.


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Veretes Mortem

Senior Member

12-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaghatai View Post
Please for the love of everything decent - make trundle not look like an escapee from a lepper colony. He's just gross to look at.

#1 reason I don't play him.

Give him a cool skin or 3 and I'll play him.

Putting forth the idea again: Dullahan Trundle.
He's not an escapee from a colony, but he is part of a leper colony.


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Grumpy Monkey

Senior Character Artist

12-13-2012
3 of 15 Riot Posts

Do you guys believe ugly can be beautiful? Because I do. Sometimes I will look at a toad or a rhino, or a gorilla and just think it's the coolest. However I have never seen an image of a gaping wound or a disease that I found appealing. These are the thoughts I have when thinking about Trundle.


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DnA Singularity

Junior Member

12-13-2012

Quote:
Karma is a support that needs farm, short range, no CC, no real ultimate. Her W is laughable, leaving Q and E as her only real abilities. They would probably still be balanced if they just included the Mantra effect baseline. Visually, I like Karma. I just gave up trying to play her a long time ago.
karma is not a support... unless she pairs up with tristana, which works insanely well, but even then you just build her AP.
I play karma frequently and i've only lost midlane once vs a cho'gath.
I play her alot in dominion aswell, botlane or top, she usually stomps.
I don't get why people don't play her...