Myths about Trundle/Karma hate

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

DubbsBunny

Member

12-13-2012

The Karma rework has been in the making for a long time now, but at least we're hearing about it. Guinsoo periodically posts on his Twitter account when he toys with changes. Recent ones:

Oct. 12th:
"Hmm latest news on Karma... Mantra Heavenly Wave does too much damage when procced, Mantra Spirit Bond is too hard to escape."
"Oh that's why. The Heavenly Wave proc had a 0.6 AP ratio (supposed to be 0). Gave the spell a 1.4 AP ratio in total. Wups."
"Karma no longer has 2 Mantra charges. Mostly to make the spell / use feel more ultimate. Other stuff too."

Nov. 12:
"Karma: Soul Shield CC reduced. Mantra Soul Shield stun duration flattened. Mantra shield amount increased."
"Karma: Mantra Spirit Bond now deals damage based on Mantra rank. Root duration is now flat 2. Bonus Health given increased."
"Karma still has her level 1 ult. It levels like Jayce's R."
"Mantra cooldown increased to 110/95/80/65 from 65/60/55/50."

Nov. 27:
"I'm getting excited for Karma. I'm buffing her Mantra Soul Shield today. It's not viable or interesting compared to Q or W."
"I'm feeling frisky, so here's what we're trying with Karma's Mantra Soul Shield: "Stuns in an area around the target, damaging targets..."
"... and shielding the target based upon how many targets were hit."

Grumpy Monkey also mentioned she'll be getting a visual upgrade with the remake. As a Karma lover, I'm a little scared but very excited to see this. I was nervous for the Katarina remake but ended up loving it. I'll have to trust Riot on this one.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

junseii

Senior Member

12-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damoklese View Post
I didnt pull it out of my ass. My source is mentioned right there in the original post. Lolmatches.com.

Where are you getting your stats?

Its entirely possible that my stats are out of date. Regardless.. its safe to say that other similarly unpopular champions have had riot's attention.
There you go saying more or less unpopular champions received attention again. Its not entirely about popularity, although I feel its a big factor, its not what holds all the weight toward warranting a tweak or rework to Riot.

I feel what is equally as important as popularity is the amount of work the champion will need to be deemed relevant again. Champions in the past had a few things changed here and there to make them viable again. They simply may not have thought of an easy way to help trundle yet.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Damoklese

Senior Member

12-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DubbsBunny View Post
The Karma rework has been in the making for a long time now, but at least we're hearing about it. Guinsoo periodically posts on his Twitter account when he toys with changes. Recent ones:

Oct. 12th:
"Hmm latest news on Karma... Mantra Heavenly Wave does too much damage when procced, Mantra Spirit Bond is too hard to escape."
"Oh that's why. The Heavenly Wave proc had a 0.6 AP ratio (supposed to be 0). Gave the spell a 1.4 AP ratio in total. Wups."
"Karma no longer has 2 Mantra charges. Mostly to make the spell / use feel more ultimate. Other stuff too."

Nov. 12:
"Karma: Soul Shield CC reduced. Mantra Soul Shield stun duration flattened. Mantra shield amount increased."
"Karma: Mantra Spirit Bond now deals damage based on Mantra rank. Root duration is now flat 2. Bonus Health given increased."
"Karma still has her level 1 ult. It levels like Jayce's R."
"Mantra cooldown increased to 110/95/80/65 from 65/60/55/50."

Nov. 27:
"I'm getting excited for Karma. I'm buffing her Mantra Soul Shield today. It's not viable or interesting compared to Q or W."
"I'm feeling frisky, so here's what we're trying with Karma's Mantra Soul Shield: "Stuns in an area around the target, damaging targets..."
"... and shielding the target based upon how many targets were hit."

Grumpy Monkey also mentioned she'll be getting a visual upgrade with the remake. As a Karma lover, I'm a little scared but very excited to see this. I was nervous for the Katarina remake but ended up loving it. I'll have to trust Riot on this one.
Thanks for the heads up. Ill have to go bookmark his twitter.

Now if we can just get Riot to talk about trundle :P


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

junseii

Senior Member

12-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DubbsBunny View Post
The Karma rework has been in the making for a long time now, but at least we're hearing about it. Guinsoo periodically posts on his Twitter account when he toys with changes. Recent ones:

Oct. 12th:
"Hmm latest news on Karma... Mantra Heavenly Wave does too much damage when procced, Mantra Spirit Bond is too hard to escape."
"Oh that's why. The Heavenly Wave proc had a 0.6 AP ratio (supposed to be 0). Gave the spell a 1.4 AP ratio in total. Wups."
"Karma no longer has 2 Mantra charges. Mostly to make the spell / use feel more ultimate. Other stuff too."

Nov. 12:
"Karma: Soul Shield CC reduced. Mantra Soul Shield stun duration flattened. Mantra shield amount increased."
"Karma: Mantra Spirit Bond now deals damage based on Mantra rank. Root duration is now flat 2. Bonus Health given increased."
"Karma still has her level 1 ult. It levels like Jayce's R."
"Mantra cooldown increased to 110/95/80/65 from 65/60/55/50."

Nov. 27:
"I'm getting excited for Karma. I'm buffing her Mantra Soul Shield today. It's not viable or interesting compared to Q or W."
"I'm feeling frisky, so here's what we're trying with Karma's Mantra Soul Shield: "Stuns in an area around the target, damaging targets..."
"... and shielding the target based upon how many targets were hit."

Grumpy Monkey also mentioned she'll be getting a visual upgrade with the remake. As a Karma lover, I'm a little scared but very excited to see this. I was nervous for the Katarina remake but ended up loving it. I'll have to trust Riot on this one.
I agree, I for one can't wait for the rework to finally be released to us. All their reworks so far have been pretty good, no one certainly was worse off after their rework. Once her numbers are finalized as they see fit, all they'll need is a skin to finish the package and get it to us. It will also need to be a time in between new champion releases.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Damoklese

Senior Member

12-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by junseii View Post
There you go saying more or less unpopular champions received attention again. Its not entirely about popularity, although I feel its a big factor, its not what holds all the weight toward warranting a tweak or rework to Riot.

I feel what is equally as important as popularity is the amount of work the champion will need to be deemed relevant again. Champions in the past had a few things changed here and there to make them viable again. They simply may not have thought of an easy way to help trundle yet.

You act as though im the one trying to say that popularity is the deciding factor. Thats exactly what im NOT saying. What im trying to show is that popularity is NOT the reason that Trundle/Karma have been neglected. Not solely anyway. You dont get ignored for 2 years simply because you arent popular.


As for Trundle.. it is not as though he is broken. Does he need some tweaking? Sure.. he isnt top 5 in the jungle, and his laning is suspect. But he is nowhere near the level of unplayability that you saw in a pre-rework eve. Trundle is a solid pick for any normal match..and a valid situational pick in competitive environments. He is strong enough to be used in that way. My point is.. Trundle is not some broken champ that should never be picked. That is not a valid excuse for ignoring him either. He SHOULD have had a new skin or three by now.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

junseii

Senior Member

12-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damoklese View Post
You act as though im the one trying to say that popularity is the deciding factor. Thats exactly what im NOT saying. What im trying to show is that popularity is NOT the reason that Trundle/Karma have been neglected. Not solely anyway. You dont get ignored for 2 years simply because you arent popular.


As for Trundle.. it is not as though he is broken. Does he need some tweaking? Sure.. he isnt top 5 in the jungle, and his laning is suspect. But he is nowhere near the level of unplayability that you saw in a pre-rework eve. Trundle is a solid pick for any normal match..and a valid situational pick in competitive environments. He is strong enough to be used in that way. My point is.. Trundle is not some broken champ that should never be picked. That is not a valid excuse for ignoring him either. He SHOULD have had a new skin or three by now.
I suppose I misinterpreted what you were saying. I think we agree though that you get ignored for 2 years because you're not popular AND your kit takes more work than others would like to make relevant in the top fields again.

I'm not a trundle player myself, seeing as I've only played him one or two times, but his kit suggests that he doesn't do anything that another champ doesn't do better. Seeing how he stands up to other junglers and top laners, there isn't much incentive to give him a skin as opposed to someone else who has been performing exceptionally in their role (not to mention they're female and thus can get an easy cash money skin).

Another thought that occurred to me that is that Riot has openly said how monster/ugly champions don't make them as much revenue, not big surprise. With this mindset, even if trundle was in a better place in comparison to others, his chances for a skin are still dangerously low.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Grumpy Monkey

Senior Character Artist

12-13-2012
1 of 15 Riot Posts

Gonna Debunk some of these myths. Trundle and Karma are both being worked on for a visual upgrade.
I want Trundle (and his skins) to be something more than what they are. As for skill reworks, I am not sure, a designer would be more apt to shed light on that one.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Vikner

Senior Member

12-13-2012

i still believe galio is op


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

ComptonsFinest

Junior Member

12-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Monkey View Post
Gonna Debunk some of these myths. Trundle and Karma are both being worked on for a visual upgrade.
Too bad visual upgrades won't help them because they're both terrible champions to begin with.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Suspitio

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

12-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Monkey View Post
Gonna Debunk some of these myths. Trundle and Karma are both being worked on for a visual upgrade.
I want Trundle (and his skins) to be something more than what they are.
And they're coming along with the skill revamp?