A friendly message to the ADC from your support.

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Oyxl

Senior Member

12-10-2012

Why are you telling your ADC what he should build? No single option is the best option in every situation. There's a reason why most ADC guides have a fixed set of core items, but none actually always build the same thing at the same time. It all depends on how well you are doing compared to your opponent.

If my ADC has a vision of how he builds and he manages to outplay our opponents with that build, I don't care what he does, as long as it works. Your issue seems to be related to the ' not working' segment and I personally find that this is normally due to the ADC just sucking overall.

I much, much!, prefer an ADC that knows when to engage and when to back off versus an ADC that exactly calculated which item is more beneficial to him in a certain situation, on the point percentage, and keeps getting hit by all sorts of random **** that can be dodged.

Any support crying that their ADC is getting the wrong items first, should first take a step back, then try the god perspective and step back in. Ok, now you realize, your ADC is just a bad player. Nothing can be gained from shouting or crying about build orders.

- Edit, although I agree with the Dorans. If your early game doesn't get completely wrecked, get something upgradable.


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Jonheath291

Senior Member

12-10-2012

I find Hurricane to be very good late-mid/ late game. I usually build it as my 4th item (after boots, IE and BT) depending on how tanky the enemy team is. It allows for faster farm which = more gold and makes you more viable in team fights. On Varus it is simply overpowered with Blight, and it is nice on Ashe as well. I would put it on the "don't rush" list because some people get this first instead of increasing their damage first (which I think is very bad) but certainly this item is worth getting.


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Brownbear

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Member

12-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Etherimp View Post
Name a single ADC who benefits more from PD > IE/BT.

Kog'maw is the only one I could possibly see an argument for.

If you say Vayne, you're wrong.
Your posts have made me laugh so far. It all depends on what champion you are playing and what you actually need. If Vayne maxes her W first then rushing PD is so much stronger than IE beacuse of the crit + faster procing of true damage. Who doesn't like true damage? Also, Draven is debatable. Faster throwing of his bleeding Q's hurts a lot, so why not? Usually he wins lane so it wouldn't set him behind.

Your build of IE then BT instead of a PD I can see effective on a ADC that has passive attack speed (such as Tristana's Q) or a carry like Caitlyn who has the poke potential and doesn't need the speed as much but just wants to get damage down. Other than that the reason people go BT is for the sustain in lane so that later they can get the IE, or live through team fights. A lot of the time the ADC has someone on the opposing team running at them with a cleaver or two yelling, "DIE!" so, they need escapes and if they get smashed they want to be able to come back with lifesteal. If you go straight IE then you don't have that sustain.

Also you say to rush a vamp scepter, so why not just use that and upgrade it? You even say it's better for damage in the end but you're more concerned about flat out damage. It's the ADC's job to get to the late game and have the damage to destroy the opposing team if they don't destroy them first. The most damage would be IE and BT, but the most efficient would (in my opinion) be BT and PD then LW and later an IE. But that changes on all carries for me.

Then onto Trinity Force...it's super strong on Ezreal and Corki due to the amount of spells they are casting. They proc off of Corki's missiles so you can poke, then burst AA. Same with Ezreal's Q, it procs off of it immediately.

You just are stating what is strong for a late game that you had the safest lane ever. Every situation is different. My usual build on Graves is BT --> PD but sometimes I would go IE into PD. But if I have a Nunu support then I would go IE --> BT or the other way around. It changes every game, and you can't be the one telling them what to build.


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Guy on a bus

Senior Member

12-10-2012

Etherimp you are so wrong about vayne. AS vayne is SO overpowered. There is no counter except shutting her down fast.


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lastchancexi

Senior Member

12-10-2012

What I'm thinking is the new OP S3 build:
Long Sword + 2 --> Vamp Sceptre

DBlades are generally trash now, they aren't as cost-efficient late game, whereas Vamp is amazing and more cost effective. Also, no need for boots now that you run faster anyway. So then:
IE rush --> Greaves --> Avarice Blade --> Statikk Shiv

Statikk Shiv is a worse item than PD, but because it builds out of Avarice Blade (and you're an AD carry that hogs all the farm), you should get it a lot faster than PD, allowing you to be quicker. And yeah, you still do need boots once you get out of laning phase.

Then:
Black Cleaver --> QSS/GA

You'll probably want Last Whisper when Cleaver gets nerfed, but right now, Cleaver is OP on everybody, and now that you have attack Speed, the %ArPen should scale really well. Just too cost-efficient to pass up, IMO. QSS is probably the item you're going to go to now that GA is nerfed, but there are some spots for GA. You might need QSS earlier in the game depending on team comp.

The PD builds and TF builds are just straight up worse now. They could still be viable, but it's likely that you don't want to play Vayne or Ezreal now, or you want to rush the above build on them because it's probably really damn strong.


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ExecutionerK

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Senior Member

12-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Etherimp View Post
If you say Vayne, you're wrong.
I think I had this discussion with you before >_> but AS vayne tends to do more damage especially mid game. Normally she will do slighty less damage compare to AD vayne but if she ever pop that ultimate she will do much more damage.


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Elier

Member

12-10-2012

The build really depends on how the game is going, what carry it is and his playstyle, so there are many many ways of building and most of them are completely valid.

A better advice would be:

Do:
- Play carefuly so you don't feed, and dodge those skillshots.
- Harras the enemy laners when you can
- Follow up when the support/jungler opens a kill oportunity
- Consider both yours and the enemies' CC and burst when fighting
- Always carry some pots on you, they can save you from poison dots, ignite, etc...

Don't:
- Dive unless really really safe
- Chase forever into their jungle
- Go into 1v3 to kill that sneaky *some champ here* that got away at 100hp, if you are doing good your life is worth more gold than his, and you will be giving the enemy team 2 assists.
- Run away at 100% hp when the enemy comes to gank and leave your support to die, there is always something you can do to help him or at least pick up one kill to make the trade even.


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Grollm

Senior Member

12-10-2012

Is this for real? Because if it is...wow. You obviously have a lot to learn.


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Cerebralbore101

Senior Member

12-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy on a bus View Post
Correction: Add rush BT to the 'don't' list. Add Rush PD to the 'do' list.

Well this is weird. I checked leaguecraft a long time ago to see what the DPS differences were with a Bloodthirster, verses a Phantom Dancer. It used to favor Bloodthirster, but now it's showing PD as the better item to get for early game damage. I'll change that right away.


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Etherimp

Senior Member

12-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brownbear555 View Post
Your posts have made me laugh so far. It all depends on what champion you are playing and what you actually need. If Vayne maxes her W first then rushing PD is so much stronger than IE beacuse of the crit + faster procing of true damage. Who doesn't like true damage? Also, Draven is debatable. Faster throwing of his bleeding Q's hurts a lot, so why not? Usually he wins lane so it wouldn't set him behind.

Your build of IE then BT instead of a PD I can see effective on a ADC that has passive attack speed (such as Tristana's Q) or a carry like Caitlyn who has the poke potential and doesn't need the speed as much but just wants to get damage down. Other than that the reason people go BT is for the sustain in lane so that later they can get the IE, or live through team fights. A lot of the time the ADC has someone on the opposing team running at them with a cleaver or two yelling, "DIE!" so, they need escapes and if they get smashed they want to be able to come back with lifesteal. If you go straight IE then you don't have that sustain.

Also you say to rush a vamp scepter, so why not just use that and upgrade it? You even say it's better for damage in the end but you're more concerned about flat out damage. It's the ADC's job to get to the late game and have the damage to destroy the opposing team if they don't destroy them first. The most damage would be IE and BT, but the most efficient would (in my opinion) be BT and PD then LW and later an IE. But that changes on all carries for me.

Then onto Trinity Force...it's super strong on Ezreal and Corki due to the amount of spells they are casting. They proc off of Corki's missiles so you can poke, then burst AA. Same with Ezreal's Q, it procs off of it immediately.

You just are stating what is strong for a late game that you had the safest lane ever. Every situation is different. My usual build on Graves is BT --> PD but sometimes I would go IE into PD. But if I have a Nunu support then I would go IE --> BT or the other way around. It changes every game, and you can't be the one telling them what to build.
Just to clarify I am not saying go BT and IE together.. I am saying go IE or BT first, then PD.


Quote:
I think I had this discussion with you before >_> but AS vayne tends to do more damage especially mid game. Normally she will do slighty less damage compare to AD vayne but if she ever pop that ultimate she will do much more damage.
BF Sword -> Level E

or

Zeal -> Level W


Which is going to do more damage IN LANE?


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