S3 Jungle Gold Starvation Still Exists

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Kayleorfeed

Senior Member

12-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by eceto View Post
I jungled a few times in PBE, and found no reason to stay and farm, and found It actually harder not to in some cases. Any champ who has a weak clear is basically ****ed if they have to farm, and cause the jungle hurts more, they cant gank as well...The only reasons iv seen that junglers will gank less is when they are forced by low health to stay in the jungle. Doesnt seem like the best system. I would rather a system that rewards for jungle farm instead of punishing for ganking.
to build on this, if you gank early and fail you just gimped yourself

because of the ridicilous scaling and the gold sink of jungle creeps it actually isnt viable to gank early at all

you just cant, you will have no team presence


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KatfishGumbo

Member

12-05-2012

am I the only one that remembers after the last jungle changes the issues (that turned out to be non-issues) for days thereafter. How can anyone post these kind of judgments before things have been allowed to settle down?


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P0WERTH1RST

Junior Member

12-05-2012

i think theyre trying to remove alot of the ganking from the game, focus more on efficient laning and team fights around objectives. its basically what these changes add up to.


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Kayleorfeed

Senior Member

12-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by KatfishGumbo View Post
am I the only one that remembers after the last jungle changes the issues (that turned out to be non-issues) for days thereafter. How can anyone post these kind of judgments before things have been allowed to settle down?
its not judgements its simple math, you receive less gold and xp in new jungle than old jungle


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Kayleorfeed

Senior Member

12-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cluélessness View Post
i think theyre trying to remove alot of the ganking from the game, focus more on efficient laning and team fights around objectives. its basically what these changes add up to.
because junglers are so gold starved team fights become a slaughterfest with an underfed jungler that cant peel


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Dunal

Senior Member

12-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by KatfishGumbo View Post
am I the only one that remembers after the last jungle changes the issues (that turned out to be non-issues) for days thereafter. How can anyone post these kind of judgments before things have been allowed to settle down?
I've been on the PBE for about two weeks. My opinion hasn't changed. Heck, it's actually got worse.

For the 2 weeks I've played of it, I'm either not farming more and I'm not feeling the jungle rewards. I'm ganking no less that I used to since the jungle doesn't feel worth it to just farm.


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MorgManBasher

Senior Member

12-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Statikk View Post
I'd like to wait a bit before jumping to any conclusions just yet.

It's extremely difficult to gauge potential optimal jungler gold because:

1) success in the jungle varies drastically depending on the game

2) the current "meta" still caters farm toward laners

For example, junglers are almost always the top gold in the game for the first 5 minutes due to the sigil buffs, but due to the current meta they lose access to that gold source very quickly (after the first clear).

Additionally, it's still normal practice for laners to poach stuff from their jungler (though it has become more difficult to do so). Do you ever wonder why players refer to lane poaching as a jungle "tax" (negative connotation) while on the other hand mid taking wraiths is something that is normal / acceptable?

Junglers are still expected to support the map rather than make the best decision for themselves at any given moment during the course of the game. I mean you guys kind of summed it up as "...after 11 minutes...nobody really lets you farm the jungle."

My point is the way we are used to playing the game tends to push junglers towards being poor and feeling like a "support."

Let's also be clear, I don't think it's a reasonable expectation for us to allow junglers to just circle clear for 25 minutes and then suddenly come out and crush everyone. A jungler should be rewarded for balancing all the choices in front of them and consistently making the best choices.

So in sum, I'd like to wait and see if there are legitimate strategies where the jungler is allowed to be more selfish and succeed. If it turns out we got the gold values wrong and the goals aren't being met, then we'll look to fix it, but I think we need to at least make a concerted effort to see the different possibilities.
Downvoted and moved on.

No one was expecting to be able to get amazing farm from the new jungle, but they were expecting it to be a little less awful.


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MLGjungler

Member

12-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Statikk View Post
I'd like to wait a bit before jumping to any conclusions just yet.

It's extremely difficult to gauge potential optimal jungler gold because:

1) success in the jungle varies drastically depending on the game

2) the current "meta" still caters farm toward laners

For example, junglers are almost always the top gold in the game for the first 5 minutes due to the sigil buffs, but due to the current meta they lose access to that gold source very quickly (after the first clear).

Additionally, it's still normal practice for laners to poach stuff from their jungler (though it has become more difficult to do so). Do you ever wonder why players refer to lane poaching as a jungle "tax" (negative connotation) while on the other hand mid taking wraiths is something that is normal / acceptable?

Junglers are still expected to support the map rather than make the best decision for themselves at any given moment during the course of the game. I mean you guys kind of summed it up as "...after 11 minutes...nobody really lets you farm the jungle."

My point is the way we are used to playing the game tends to push junglers towards being poor and feeling like a "support."

Let's also be clear, I don't think it's a reasonable expectation for us to allow junglers to just circle clear for 25 minutes and then suddenly come out and crush everyone. A jungler should be rewarded for balancing all the choices in front of them and consistently making the best choices.

So in sum, I'd like to wait and see if there are legitimate strategies where the jungler is allowed to be more selfish and succeed. If it turns out we got the gold values wrong and the goals aren't being met, then we'll look to fix it, but I think we need to at least make a concerted effort to see the different possibilities.
even tho it is the first day of he new jungle i can safley say as a jungler main.. i dont like the first clear... less gold.. slower clear... ganking at 4 would be nice but every lane still goin to start boots.. every jungler has to start with the same item... no diversity there. if a lane gets fb now before your first inital clear.. that lane has to be camped.. jungle pressure does not exist untill after 5 mins on almost every champ. counter jungle early... too strong.. 4v5 gg. well until you get enought stats for it we wont see a change.. but the jungle is the worst place to be now.


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Kayleorfeed

Senior Member

12-05-2012

Riot i might add something

Because of the severe buffs to jungle creeps there is no jungler below lv25

why?

there are no runes and masteries, new players must come up through the game running duo top kill lanes and suddenly switch to a jungler that needs to manage his time correctly or else he will fall severely behind


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Kchaosrei

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Senior Member

12-05-2012

The new jungle is a nightmare. Why jungle when i can just go sit in the enemy jungle and wait for him to come around the corner extreamly hurt? And then take his buff and get first blood?

Tank jungle is impossible to do now. Any brusier can walk in and mop him up.

while i understand that you want to make it harder for lanes ot be ganked. you are going to cause junglers to gank each other more. Welcome to the new jungle where u get farmed not the creeps.