[Discussion] Dominion and its Bleeding Playerbase

First Riot Post
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AlienJ7

Senior Member

11-30-2012

Why not show normal ELO? This would give those that want to be competitive a little bit of something. It's simple and I really believe it would help.


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FOODFOOD

Senior Member

11-30-2012

While that would be awesome, I think there are two major issues with displaying normal ELO in Dominion.

  • I don't think they can make it so that Normal ELO is displayed in one game mode and not the others.
  • Not every player wants to see their ELO. This will make elitism and heavy competition where it doesn't need to be. Say you're low ELO and pick... Veigar. You get a teammate that is just 100% certain you're going to lose now that you picked Veigar and they're going to lose elo and you're not trying enough and you should have picked Teemo and blah blah blah. It takes some of the fun out of normal games.

PS. FOODFOOD just lost his "list" virginity
PPS. And now his "highlight" virginity. BB Codes are fun.


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AlienJ7

Senior Member

11-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by FOODFOOD View Post
While that would be awesome, I think there are two major issues with displaying normal ELO in Dominion.
  • I don't think they can make it so that Normal ELO is displayed in one game mode and not the others.
  • Not every player wants to see their ELO. This will make elitism and heavy competition where it doesn't need to be. Say you're low ELO and pick... Veigar. You get a teammate that is just 100% certain you're going to lose now that you picked Veigar and they're going to lose elo and you're not trying enough and you should have picked Teemo and blah blah blah. It takes some of the fun out of normal games.

PS. FOODFOOD just lost his list virginity
PPS. And highlight. BB Codes are fun.
I really don't understand why they couldn't figure out a way to show ELO just for Dominion. It doesn't seem like it would be that difficult. You may be right, I dunno.

I don't think people would be as serious about things as they may be in ranked games. Even if some do, I still don't see the problem. The ones that just come in for fun and take things less seriously are probably not going to stick around anyway.

This would be a good way to keep competitive players here, imo. ..And I really believe that keeping those competitive players here is important for the long-term health of Dominion.


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FOODFOOD

Senior Member

11-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlienJ7 View Post
The ones that just come in for fun and take things less seriously are probably not going to stick around anyway.
But we WANT them to stick around; that's the thing. People need to have fun in Dominion, or it's not really worth playing. Yes, competition is fun. However, how are people supposed to try stuff out? How are people supposed to decide whether they like it or not? Coming in to Dominion to try it out, only to be thrown in with a bunch of super-serious-mode people is definitely not fun.

Say I'm new to Dominion and Normal ELO is displayed. My first game of Dominion is also my first game of Ranked, essentially. My ELO is affected by every single game.

I'm not trying to be a proponent of hiding normal ELO, because I deeply miss it. However, I can definitely see the merits of having it disabled in regards to keeping the Dominion population high. I just wish there was a way we could enable and disable it ourselves :/


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Ekis the Seraph

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Senior Member

11-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by FOODFOOD View Post
But we WANT them to stick around; that's the thing. People need to have fun in Dominion, or it's not really worth playing. Yes, competition is fun. However, how are people supposed to try stuff out? How are people supposed to decide whether they like it or not? Coming in to Dominion to try it out, only to be thrown in with a bunch of super-serious-mode people is definitely not fun.
There's CoOp vs. AI or, as any people have suggested, people should advocate for ranked so you could separate your serious players from those who want to "try it out" because as it stands there is no true separate platform for either. (sure they can play bots but it's nothing like playing against real people...and there's no exact place for those who feel they have a decent grip on the game to test their skills without someone who would rather have fun at the expense of his/her own teammates)

Trust me when I say that it's equally not as fun to play with people who want to "try it out". Sure a few are polite, heed advice, and are genuinely trying to learn Dominion and get better at it to play more competitively, but that is NOT the case for a majority of players, both new and veteran players alike (most believe their sh_t doesn't stink and that you can't tell them how to play, even if said advice would make them better...)

We must be forgetting how much of a cesspool the community really is, a prime example of this is the chat in Low ELO matches (both SR and Dominion)

By the same token why should the super-serious-mode players have to hold their hands throughout the entire experience?


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FOODFOOD

Senior Member

11-30-2012

There was a time when ALL OF US tried out Dominion. I don't mean the people that say "Oh I want to try AP Tristana - better go see if it works in Dominion before I bring it to Summoner's Rift." I mean people that legitimately haven't ever played Dominion and want to give it a go. When the first match that you get thrown into is a ranked match, it's a little unsettling.

Also, I really don't want this thread to turn into a "We need Ranked to grow the population" thread. It's been discussed to death (like Blackfire Torch) and we know Riot's stance on it. I want to think of alternatives to Ranked that we as a community can do to bring people into Dominion and for them to stay.


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Orphane

Senior Member

11-30-2012

It's not the people tryharding that discourage the people who are truly trying out Dominion for the first time, though. It's the afk'ers, the leavers, the people who go "lol i'm here to test SR build, who cares it's Dominion". The people who don't give a **** about Dominion are the ones who kill it for newbies because they make the people who are trying it out for the first time associate Dominion with afk'ers and trolls. You don't really run into actual tryhard games where people rage at you for not taking revive until like the 1600s where people are trying to follow meta or trying to win.

When you see all the people in GD who go "yeah i played a dominion game and it was like deathmatch and we just ran around killing each other lol there's no strategic depth" that's not because there were any tryhards in their games.


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Redeemed In Fire

Senior Member

11-30-2012

A brief aside for BFT -

Remove its ability to proc on persistent DoTs (mumu tears, singed poison), and only make it appear once at the start of non-persistent ones (tmo shroom, brand passive, etc.) and problem freakin solved. Its only broken on the few champs that can spam-apply it; its fine on the other 90% which buy it mostly for the stats and get like 150 extra damage tops from the proc. Stats nerf doesn't fix the issue it has, and it just makes it more hardcore specialized for the few champs who CAN abuse the proc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ekis the Seraph View Post
(most believe their sh_t doesn't stink and that you can't tell them how to play, even if said advice would make them better...)
I'd just like to say, you don't need to tell me i'm bad and my build sucks if you catch me in one of the relatively few games I do poorly on. Chances are they're spam focusing me or their team counters me hard, or I'm playing a champion I don't main. =/


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Snoop Nome

Game Designer

11-30-2012
1 of 1 Riot Posts

Normal Elo was supposed to be hidden; its previous visibility was a vulnerability/bug in the system. Even if it had some positive benefits, for the good of the overall quality level of the game, it had to be patched out.

Bugs can lead to interesting emergent things, and sometimes they're eventually incorporated into the design (to use a genre example, see Tiny's Toss/Avalanche double-damage interaction in Dota), but in this case, having visible Elo is basically cribbing the functionality of a ranked queue, and that's an entirely different can of worms.


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bierfaust

Senior Member

11-30-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlienJ7 View Post
Why not show normal ELO? This would give those that want to be competitive a little bit of something. It's simple and I really believe it would help.
See that's not the issue. Viewing normal ELO wont change anything. The reason (at least what I want ranked for) is that Ranked would be a seperate queue from normal, which means that you won't get lumped in the matchmaking with all the bleach drinking SR scum that have no idea how to work with a team, and most of the time are simply not even interested, they just muck around.

Seperating between the serious and casual DOM players will remove alot of stress on both parties.

Serious players won't have to put up with idiots building straight Tri-Force on Jayce, not running Revive but taking flash, and in general not caring about the game, hence ruining it for 9 other people. Because if someone did join a ranked game, and messed around, they would get reported and their account suspended, making them think twice about it in the future.

Casual players can make their stupid builds, try their stupid strats, play whatever champ they want regardless of their teammates and take flash over revive all day long, and not have to complain about revive being a "problem".

Everybody wins that way. At the very least they could remove blind pick and make draft pick mandatory.