Lightbringer (OP updated)

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MMKH

Senior Member

11-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
Let's talk about this item. How often is it purchased? How is its buildup? What would be the ramifications if it were removed?

UPDATE: I'm going to pull over Grez's Spectral Lantern from Twisted Treeline for 1.72. This and Lightbringer will co-exist for a patch; we'll see how it plays out. Eventually, we may do something like make Lightbringer build out of Grez's so it has the active.
Finally, a way for AD champs to fight back against the likes of AD Malz and have an AD counterpart to Sweeper. I think this would also open up a lot of viable bot laners as they will be able to clear waves and farm much easier.


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Sagethyme

Member

11-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
That's why this is being done, actually; to potentially replace/remove the passive eventually.
I feel there is a place for the Lightbringer passive in Dominion - I find the Sweeper a rewarding item to buy for AP carries the new buffs to it actually make it attractive. That being said the necessity for the passive is due to the only other vision being Sweeper.

Buying Lightbringer always has felt like a chore, the cost of recurve bow is quite high, an the over-all damage is low. While the combine cost is cheap for the stats it's a bit sad that it's a simple item, while Sweeper build through Kindle Gem. I think having it build out of Grez's is a very good idea and fits the flavor of the item.

Perhaps for the cost of upgrading it one could gain a charge system similar to Statikks Shiv, this would replace the traditional CD allowing player to have a more reliable 'on demand' way to gain vision of targets feeling in the bush. We need a way to counter champions which use brush/wall jumps, it needs to be available, when they jump, not for scouting. 60 seconds is too long to wait for an AOE effect on an item which is intended to enable pursuit. We don't need a persistent stealth reveling mechanic.

I think a powerful, flavorful active for a Lightbringer built from Grez could be more similar to the Sweepers active;
Grants the aoe vision - which would reveal stealth - but any enemy champions who comes in contact with the mist spread it (vision) in the fashion of Nocturnes Duskbringer - Lightbringer - the persistant effect shouldn't reveal stealth as that still shuts down that group of champions. But the spreading of vision mist would prevent the jukes and make for a highly interesting skirmishes in areas around speed shrines behind points etc.


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Phourc

Senior Member

11-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by MMKH View Post
Finally, a way for AD champs to fight back against the likes of AD Malz and have an AD counterpart to Sweeper. I think this would also open up a lot of viable bot laners as they will be able to clear waves and farm much easier.
Bleh, there's already a 'help dudes clear' item coming in S3, Tiamat - Specificially stated as intended to help the likes of Poppy farm.

I don't like the idea of such a niche item effect on Dominion. Seriously, there's no jungle, almost no farming - even in bot lane farming is only one of several viable strategies - and it's really only going to be even the slightest bit useful against Malz minions and Heimer turrets - which is again a trap, because in my experience the champion is almost as easy to kill as the pets in both cases.

Keep the grez active, and either remove the passive and reduce the price, shift the gold value of it back into stats or give it some more map-appropriate passive effect.


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Omnipherious

Senior Member

11-19-2012

Have you considered changing the passive so that you reveal your target 'upon dealing physical damage' instead of just basic attacks. It would make it useful on more champions since it would basically be the Hextech Sweeper for ADs


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MrSmileyy

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Senior Member

11-19-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
That's why this is being done, actually; to potentially replace/remove the passive eventually.
Then I misread your post as saying it would be lantern into this and have both (which you didn't say, I just read it that way) in which case, sorry about that ^^;;

edit: hmm downvoted for apologizing because I misread? LOL


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Redenbacher

Senior Member

11-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by FDru View Post
Grez is decent but Madred's Razors is really horrible in Dominion.

It will be nice to have a reveal option for AD champs anyway, though.
Grez's is dropping the Razor's portion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
It's dropped Madred's Razors. I'm very heavily leaning towards Grez upgrading into Lightbrighter right now--not sure whether to keep the persistent vision passive though.
Probably because Machete is coming out for TT, if I'm not mistaken.

I do like the idea of Lantern upgrading to Last Whisper as a late game option. I believe the passive reveal needs to be dropped, for consistency's sake. Though with attack damage, armor, and lifesteal on the item (before an upgrade) it sounds like a great item for just about any AD champion... always. I'm not sure if that's a bad thing. I wish every AP purchased Sweeper.


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PXShaman

Senior Member

11-20-2012

RiotNome, I am your friend and greatest supporter. I love how you handle the community, imo you should be paid the highest at riots base.

I think lightbringer should be removed. As an avid Wukong bot player, light bringer is a terribly op item. Think of it on vayne, nuff said. But on other AD's it is still op, AS is a really good stat, and that item lets you be on stealth characters and it destroys the fundamentals of the aspect. Grez's Lantern is an item that allows more skill to make that item good, but at the same time it is balanced. At the same time it lets AD's get a sight of the top bush above windmill. I see no disadvantages of the Lantern, but I see more problems with Light Bringer on a lot of Ad champs.

Thank you for your time.
Also I think thornmail should be removed from dominion since it got removed from TT. I think a weaker item should be introduced, but that is your job, i like the thought of a cheap armor item.


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George W Nome

Game Designer

11-20-2012
7 of 7 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by PXShaman View Post
RiotNome, I am your friend and greatest supporter. I love how you handle the community, imo you should be paid the highest at riots base.

I think lightbringer should be removed. As an avid Wukong bot player, light bringer is a terribly op item. Think of it on vayne, nuff said. But on other AD's it is still op, AS is a really good stat, and that item lets you be on stealth characters and it destroys the fundamentals of the aspect. Grez's Lantern is an item that allows more skill to make that item good, but at the same time it is balanced. At the same time it lets AD's get a sight of the top bush above windmill. I see no disadvantages of the Lantern, but I see more problems with Light Bringer on a lot of Ad champs.

Thank you for your time.
Also I think thornmail should be removed from dominion since it got removed from TT. I think a weaker item should be introduced, but that is your job, i like the thought of a cheap armor item.
I think Thornmail has some valid applications on Dominion, and its "best case use" scenario isn't nearly as atrocious on Dominion as it is on Twisted Treeline, so I'm in no rush to remove it. However, long-term, I do want to add a replacement for it on Twisted Treeline that adds more counterplay, so it may eventually make it over to Dominion as well.


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XYHN

Junior Member

11-21-2012

hey Nome,

I am still a big fan of Dota/HoN and one of the things I miss most is how many cool activatable items there were compared to LoL (I also think it makes the skill cap higher and big plays more exciting). I would be really excited if you could kind of make League more like that. I'm glad you're going to change things to be less mindless.

P.S. Any other current items maybe going to become activate-able? One of the other things I miss about activatables was that your heroes were more flexible, like if you were playing one of those pubs where your entire team has no CC but you are surviving somehow you can stack sheepsticks and get CCs. Also League needs tablets of command/force staffs

Keep up the great work!


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Dominus Arts

Member

11-22-2012

Lightbringer was never and probably won't be a threat against a player who understand how this item works, no matter if that player plays Talon, Kha'Zix or any other champion that relies on stealth.
I don't see this item working on many champions, not to mention that for the price of it You can get pretty close to items like Sanguine Blade or even Infinity Edge.

Since a lot of AD carries share the same goal as stealth assasins - finish off the target as soon as possible - they deserve at least one item oriented for them to counter stealth.

By the way isn't Frozen Heart worth much more attention in terms of balancing when You compare price/stats it gives?