@IronStylus: I am very disappointed in you and the art team.

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BerserkInferno

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Senior Member

11-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by LORDBIGDOGGIE View Post
@Morello
...or anyone RIOT really...
please take 2 minutes to watch this video "Miss Representation" which can explain the issue much clearer than I can. In my opinion RIOT has paved the way for free games. LoL is a free game that is financially successful, why can't you break a little more out of the mold? Just a little.

http://vimeo.com/18985647#at=0

I love you for putting this up. Watching the movie was a real eye opener for me as a male and how I view myself, my colleagues, females, and everyone I know and ever will know.


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Coccyx420

Senior Member

11-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by BelligerentGnu View Post
I think you're maybe doing a little forest-for-treesing yourself here, Morello. True, until this point LoL hasn't had a mermaid-style champ - but it *does* have Rengar, Hecarim, Cassiopeia, Warwick, Nasus, Renekton, Udyr, Twitch and Wukong. Anthropomorphic champs aren't that unusual. More to the point, while Ironstylus may or may not have been talking about overall silouhette variation, this thread and others like it are talking about a specific kind of variation - the presence of markers of sexualization in a champion.

There's something I think of as the Halloween phenomenon - that is, a number of champions look like they purchased a sexy-[blank] costume rather than going fully with their concept. Zyra, for example, could have looked something more like this - http://bit.ly/107EFE2 - and Elise's human form suffers the same issue, although transforming into a giant spider makes up for a lot. Nami I think is on the lower end of this scale, but isn't without troubles. Despite the fact that in some ways she's a very monstrous champ, she still has a human skin coloured torso (reinforcing the woman-in-a-mermaid-suit look), an hourglass figure, and a heavy visual emphasis on her boobs. (its less a matter of size, though thats a factor, than of framing)

Diana proved that a female champ doesn't need to be sexual to be badass or attractive (I'll repeat what I said at the time - you guys really knocked it out of the park with her.) And as for male champs, I'd point out Singed and Swain as good examples of the kind of variety we're looking for in female champs. One is old and walks with a cane; the other is tall, skinny and lanky.

I guess it boils down to this. A lot of the time it feels like Riot's 'default setting' for female champion design is "variant on sexy woman." All we're really seeking is a default setting of "variant on woman" - which will sometimes be sexy, and sometimes more like Singed/Swain, but will most often be more like Diana, or Leona, or Katniss from The Hunger Games, or Korra from Avatar.

Honestly, this post explains exactly what people have been trying to voice. Actually this message voices a combination for those who are just complaining to complain by pointing at a common feature and saying they want something different as well as voicing the concerns of players who want to look past social accepted norms and created a new style that would be just as attractive.

Nautilus was one of my fav, wasnt as played because I get nervous vs ppl but his kit, large physique and personality attracted me...

"sometimes i think this anchor just weighs me dooown" xD


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Kikhan

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Senior Member

11-18-2012

not that I will get a reply but, why not make this champion male? the community has been wanting another male support for what must be approaching years now.


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The Fizznity

Senior Member

11-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koelof View Post
And all three of them have reasons to have the body they do.


Elise:

Vicious and elegant, Elise's charismatic grace lures the innocent and greedy alike into her web of deceit.

Her desperate followers hungered for the god's favor, believing its blessings to be the source of Elise's vibrance and power.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RCIX View Post
I just want to point out that "looks to match" != displaying them for all to see. *points to diana*
and
Quote:
Originally Posted by RCIX View Post
Elise is. Her lore paints the picture of a Victorian era priestess/cult leader, then gives us... Cat Woman. But with random skin windows.


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Verxint

Senior Member

11-18-2012

Since there's a billion reds in the thread, maybe I'll get a response this time.

I've said a few times that league needs a 500 year old voodoo/witch doctor/martial arts master woman type champion, the one that might be 2 feet tall but will still kick your ass with your ass. Something kind of like Colonge from Ranma 1/2 (just a very general comparison)


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Keji

Junior Member

11-18-2012

Dude. Check out DC or Marvel comics. Big racks on heroines is such a long standard.
And it's pixels, so it doesn't really matter these days, the models are fine.


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Letkhar

Senior Member

11-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
No, it means some people have a very vocal opinion and want to express it until it is resolve to their personal satisfaction. That may or may not align with what is right for our game and our players.

Excuse me for a moment, I need to speak very candidly about this issue and I may be representing my personal (as opposed to Riot) views here;

Correct me if I'm wrong, but IronStylus has essentially mentioned that they're looking at fixing things like similar silhouettes and other shape-language that lessens variety - but while keeping a stylistic consistency to League of Legends. This character has a fish for a body, but you're so over-focused on the breasts issue that you can't see the forest for the trees. Therefore, this issue is not in the interest of the player-base from this perspective, but instead is a crusade of some social morality angle that doesn't have anything to do with game development.

All of the male characters (that we're happy with...) have strong musculature and other traditionally powerful, male features. All of our females have identifiable femininity in their forums, and that is played up or down based on the archetype. Nami is one of the better-received champion sneak peeks we've seen, so players enjoy it, and accomplishes variety from a lot of angles.

For context, did you know Miss Fortune is the most popular character among female League players? Sona is #2 - something that is appealing to the eye is more aspirational and has a higher "cool quotient" than things that are not - even without hormones in the equation (unless their cool is based on an opposing feature (Kog'Maw, for example)).

We want to offer variety, and earlier this year we talked a lot about improving that. A mermaid is pretty varied when compared to other female champions, and if it has breasts, or not isn't something I think is a focal point of things that actually matter - especially when we do have strong female characters like Diana, Leona or Riven.

The art team's thoughts as a whole may deviate from what I just posted (they know more about forms and shape language than I by miles), but if we do provide variety, and we do provide good alternatives to exposed characters, then from a holistic standpoint, I'd call that successful. If some people want to talk about the philosophic nature of how portrayal of gender in society effects video games, I'm not terribly interested in that conversation - I want to make what people like.
Ever heard of something called "tyranny of the majority"?

Probably not. Most Rioters don't seem to have the most well-rounded education. Which also explains why they don't really understand how big of a problem this is in the entertainment industry and society as a whole.

I really don't expect you guys to be any better than other companies. But it is kind of hilarious and pathetic to see you just outright defend it.

I expect downvotes because this post is nothing but negative, short, and stupid. I would downvote me too. I'm just tired of writing well-thought-out posts only to have them responded to by someone who really doesn't understand the problem.


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Gixia

Senior Member

11-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keji View Post
Dude. Check out DC or Marvel comics. Big racks on heroines is such a long standard.
Yes, and people have been *****ing about it there for quite a while now too.


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Morello

Lead Designer

11-18-2012
23 of 23 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ailias View Post
Oh and I forgot to add

Why are nearly all of the support champs female? Apart from Taric (and I suppose Nunu) they are all female.
Just like we needed Graves to put the manly back into ADC, I think we need a dark and/or male support character as well.


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Verxint

Senior Member

11-18-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Just like we needed Graves to put the manly back into ADC, I think we need a dark and/or male support character as well.
Manly psychopath as a long range CC support mage?

Just a random idea.