@IronStylus If you were allowed to, would you rework Sejuani's art?

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CynicalGiant

Senior Member

11-14-2012

To make her make more sense visually?

A model like woman in a chain-mail bikini supposedly from the arctic and a powerful warrior and somewhat of a barbarian doesn't really make any sense. Oh and try riding an animal without pants on. You are going to be incredibly sore and uncomfortable. Sejuani might be that tough but she doesnt look like it body wise.

Shouldn't she be more amazoness looking? Wider frame? Broader shoulders?

Shouldn't she be wearing a lot more armor? Shouldn't she be a lot taller and bigger in general?

I personally find the strong, tall and amazoness looking women quite attractive, might be because I am a large man myself. Posing as tough but not really looking like it or wearing hypocritical "armor" is a big turnoff.

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Originally Posted by swan2swan View Post


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Ginga

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11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRadioGiant View Post
A model like woman in a chainmail bikini supposedly from the arctic and a powerful warrior and somewhat of a barbarian doesn't really make any sense.

Shouldn't she be more amazonness looking? Wider frame? Broader shoulders?

Shouldn't she be wearing a lot more armor? Shouldn't she be a lot taller and bigger in general?

It's because she IS a barbarian in the frigid wasteland of Freljord that it makes sense for her to be dressed as such though.

As I explained before...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginga View Post

The fact that she is Ashe's sister should justify her being able to survive Freljord while so lightly dressed. If you look at Ashe's attire, she isn't exactly well covered up herself. That thin cape isn't going to do much for her. Combine with the fact that both of them have control over ice magic, it's easy to conclude the two of them aren't going to be as affected by the cold as a normal human is. Sejuani in particular should have even less reason to be armoured than her already scantily clad sister is you read her lore.

"She pushed herself to extremes, walking out into blizzards without food or furs and training while frigid winds raked her flesh. "


And then there is the fact that Sejuani is a barbarian, NOT a paladin some mounted templar knight. In various fantasy settings that Freljord is based off of, barbarians are berserkers that are proud of their bodies. Rather than hiding it behind layers of clothes and armour like some pathetic civilized folk, a barbarian shows it off proudly. Barbarians are overconfient that their well-toned body is enough to survive anything they can thanks to their training. A barbarian leaps into the fray regardless of odds and goes berserk on the enemy, practicality be damned.

Hence why I disagree with adding layers of fur and armour on her. It violates her character as Ashe's sister, Barbarian Queen who trained in Freljord's blizzard with exposed flesh.


Not to mention, the other barbarian in the game, Tryndamere, is even more lightly dressed than Sejuani herself. Why should Sejuani wear layers of armour when her fellow barbarian is currently wearing even less than her? Modesty? Class? She's a Barbarian! She'd sooner let the enemy get a first free hit off her than cover up her proud well-toned body.
I didn't say anything about a wider frame and larger shoulders. But that one is pretty obvious. That'd make her really really un-marketable unless she proves to be super OP...which she isn't. In fact, quite the opposite, she's trash tier.

Not to mention, Sejuani isn't the first champion whose anatomy does not fit them. Even someone like Leona is way too small to be able to leap across the battlefield in her attire. Nidalee needs far larger arms to be able to throw her javelins horizontally at such amazing distances too. But they're all designed to be physically appealing, so there needs to be artistic liberties.


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Thessalonike

Senior Member

11-15-2012

*sigh*.... i won't answer for him, but what do you think for this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
I appreciate how this question was asked, so here's the deal with Sejuani.

A lot of what I'll say here has had its way paved by Morello in that he owns up to when we gaff up to something design-wise, I feel we did in fact gaff up art-wise with Sejuani, at least in terms of marrying concept with context. I shall explain..

I worked on Sejuani‘s production art, in that I did a turnaround of her after her concept had been fleshed out and approved. Basically, front, side, back, of both her and the boar. I actually wasn't working at Riot when I began working on her. I was a freelancer at the time and it was an assignment to work on the turnaround externally. The concept had been done in-house. I was actually fine with what I saw at the time as I said.. "Hey, it's a sword and sorcery type barbaric girl on a big boar, I can deal with that" We actually made her fairly muscular, but not beefy. Very in-shape, but attractive. We emphasized a very strong core on her and thicker legs, as she'd have to be really toned and muscular to a) control the animal she was on and b) swing that flail. For a barbarian gal, I thought it was in a decent range. At the time I didn't have much context so I filled in the blanks myself.

I arrived at Riot full time not long after I began working on Sejuani's turnaround. When I entered Riot it was actually the very first thing I worked on as it carried over from my freelance term. However, within a day it was interrupted by being tasked to work on the lady of my life, Leona. Sejuani was put on hold for a while. Volty, who worked on Sejuani was also diverted to Leona at that time I believe.

It wasn't until.. I'd have to check my file dates.. but I'm pretty sure not until I finished working on Talon or Xerath that I returned to Sejuani when we had planned to resume work on her. At that point I finished out her turnaround, at least the greyscale version. Another artist filled in the color work. It wasn't until a while later, at a review, where I learned about her backstory. At that point I learned she was Ashe's sister, was from Freljord, hailed from the tundra and... wait... why did we put her in a bikini?

Needless to say that was a bit of a red flag. At the time though, we were pretty deep into the production process for me to give any well-timed feedback. This was very much a crunch time and the last thing I wanted to do was to make anyone’s life more difficult by insisting we change a ton of stuff. The team as a whole had decided to move forward and I am always and will always be 100% with the team in supporting its decisions. We’re all grownups, we all make well-informed decisions. Even if I have concerns I know darn well the team will execute to the best of its ability. This is where my fault lies. I think I should have voiced my concern a little louder and/or earlier. So, I am absolutely responsible if indeed I did not share feedback appropriately if it was a big concern to me. A well informed opinion never falls on deaf ears here, so I fully accept responsibility for not pushing what I felt was important.

Regardless, Sejuani continued into production and was released. She was difficult for a lot of people considering how much work went into her. I will stand by the fact that despite some initial visual choices I find her quality to be good when it comes to polish and animation. I think she’s a neat character where we had to do some interesting things to overcome certain obstacles. It was also a very hectic time as we had a number of things on our plate simultaneously with upcoming champions. Sejuani was one of a few champions which I think could have marinated a little longer.

This is all the story of development though. We iterate, attempt, analyze and learn. It’s all a learning process with its share of successes and failures. Sejuani works in certain regards. In others I think she falls short. Visually, if someone were to give me the assignment today with the lore context, I’d have probably come up with something very similar to what you’ve suggested. Maybe an elegant but armored fur coat, or more selectively bundled up appearance that still shows she’s a strong, beautiful woman. Instead of a boar I’d have probably gone with a snow leopard, or maybe some other crazy beast more suited for a frozen wasteland. These are things we can indeed try in the future with skins. I think she might benefit for an overhaul in this way that could serve the fantasy we’re trying to communicate with her. This is where I emphasize that I think Sejuani works in concept but not in context. Right now, I agree that her current base visual design doesn’t work when you contextualize it with her background story. If she was in the desert, maybe. From the frozen north, not so much.

I think a lot of the artists feel similar to the way I do about Sejuani in retrospect. We’ve brought up the subject when looking back on her as we ideate skins. We think about the design when we’re developing look in conjunction with story,. That’s what’s great about development at this cadence. We get to learn from our experience so that we can iterate differently next time and use our arsenal of design appropriately.

I hope that was informative.

edit: lol, downvote for quoting Ironstylus commenting on the op.


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WelcomeToTarget

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Senior Member

11-15-2012

Learn to read her lore


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IronStylus

Sr. Concept Artist

11-15-2012
1 of 1 Riot Posts

Yes.


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Elite Midget

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Senior Member

11-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by IronStylus View Post
Yes.
...Make it happen. Please.

Turn her into a Frozen Leona.


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PallasAthens

Senior Member

11-15-2012

See, the thing is though, in most games where the Male character wears heavy armor, the female wears skimpy bikinis.

Sejuani may be immune to cold, or get healed by it, or whatever excuse, but it's still silly. It's like bringing lotion to a sword and fire fight.


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Rocl

Senior Member

11-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elite Midget View Post
...Make it happen. Please.

Turn her into a Frozen Leona.
Let's not go that far. Bikini, no. Heels, no. Some rugged climate appropriate armor, sure.


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And it was K

Member

11-15-2012

Keep the fierce look on her face. It's sexy.


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Garo Fury

Senior Member

11-15-2012

I just want them to change the cropping on her Sabretusk's loading picture so Bristle would seem less cut off.