Loading Border Should Be Based on Queue

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Vandevic

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Senior Member

11-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yegg View Post
Let me first say that the current implementation of the loading screen borders is an experiment, and I'm willing to change how they work if and when I'm convinced that it would be better for the health of the game. What does "health of the game" mean in this case? A couple things:

1. You guys want to show off your accomplishments with your best foot forward. I hear that and it definitely weighs into the decision. Some of you also feel like we didn't give you enough warning on how the borders would work, which is a fair point. We should have locked down how they would work earlier and let you know in the original announcement.

2. I want there to be less toxicity in the game. There are reports of players using the borders as an excuse to belittle other players. The question here is: would those players have been toxic anyway and it's just taking a slightly different form? Or is it creating toxicity where there wouldn't have been any? I'll be looking over the data in the coming days to start to make that distinction.

Some people are saying that this is an example of Riot shunning competitive 5s or indicating that Ranked Teams aren't as important as the Ranked Solo queue. That's simply not the case. I'm one of the biggest advocates for Ranked Teams in the entire company. Since I've been at Riot we've seen huge increases in the popularity of Ranked Teams, and we're only just getting started. The Season 3 Path to Pro that the eSports team put together is a great example of this. Did you know that you can eventually qualify for the Season 3 Championship Series just by making it to the top 32 of the Ranked 5s ladder during the preseason? I don't think a lot of people realize yet just how big of a deal that is. This means you play League of Legends professionally, receive a salary, play in a season with weekly scheduled matches, and compete for millions of dollars.

However, as much as I like Ranked Teams, it's a fact that doing well in those queues is as much about who you know as it is about your own individual skill. And generally I'm totally okay with that. I'm fine with people showing off their Platinum and Diamond badges on the forums even if they might not have been able to achieve that in solo queue (yes, even Morello). But when it comes to the loading screen, I'm much more concerned about the accuracy of what's being portrayed, because it's natural to read a lot into it in terms of raw player skill. Is it really better for everyone if we have Diamond borders showing up next to Silver borders in normal games? I think it would be confusing ("Why am I matched with these Diamond players if I'm Silver?" or "I don't play ranked, does this mean I'm a Silver player or a Diamond player?") and I think it could cause even more elitism than we're already seeing.

Going back to the point about the borders being an experiment. Originally, they were only going to be shown in Ranked games. You all asked for them to be shown in normals as well and after much deliberation I changed it to the current incarnation. Clearly not everyone is happy with that, so I'll keep gathering data and reading what you guys have to say, and make further changes if and when they're warranted.
Honestly even though I would never talk about it in game, my confidence going into the game is now affected by the borders I see on my teammates.


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iainB85

Senior Member

11-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ELOGAHMAS View Post
Its a reward. That reward is what many of us pushed so hard for in the end. I dont care if you think road kill can get Gold or not. I personally last season was proud to get bronze. To get silver and Gold this season means I am far from great, but at least Im improving. I pushed hard for my banners, and wold like them to properly reflect them in the que I play in. If Im in 3s.. show 3s Border, solo and 5s as well. They should reflect that. As far as abuse and people flaming, they will do that no matter what. Not fair to those of us that dont flame and would like to be reflected for our achievements or lack there of.
The issue is it's a reward that some of us didn't ask for, and have no option to not display. If you get into the upper elo's your silver or bronze frame is like a stigma in many people's eyes saying that you don't belong there, and are going to be a bad player.


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Africa

Senior Member

11-15-2012

I agree to some extent, although I don't feel that your SR games (whether that be normal or ranked) should have borders attained in 3v3. This would be extremely unfair towards those who earned their solo queue and 5v5 diamond borders, which are arguably much more difficult to attain because of the larger player base. In addition 3v3 and 5v5 are different game modes so it wouldn't even be a good indicative of skill in that queue. The same goes for 5v5 borders in 3v3 of course.


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Delta Sniper

Senior Member

11-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by iainB85 View Post
I'm currently doing pretty good in placement matches, and have found my silver border to be a huge hindrance to my gameplay experience -- so much so that I wish I could just turn it off and have nothing. I've received a ton of flack from gold/platinum players that I am going to ruin the game, and one person went as far as to say "GG SILVER RATED NEWB IS OUR MID NOT WORTH PLAYING" and afk'd on me.
So what your saying is i should wait to play my placement matches until this whole thing is fixed in a good way.


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GrantLewis

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Member

11-15-2012

I was under the impression that they would be queue-specific with perhaps normal being related to solo queue. I also believe that the toxic players would remain toxic regardless of border.


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BLUE TEAM LEADER

Senior Member

11-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yegg View Post
Let me first say that the current implementation of the loading screen borders is an experiment, and I'm willing to change how they work if and when I'm convinced that it would be better for the health of the game. What does "health of the game" mean in this case? A couple things:

1. You guys want to show off your accomplishments with your best foot forward. I hear that and it definitely weighs into the decision. Some of you also feel like we didn't give you enough warning on how the borders would work, which is a fair point. We should have locked down how they would work earlier and let you know in the original announcement.

2. I want there to be less toxicity in the game. There are reports of players using the borders as an excuse to belittle other players. The question here is: would those players have been toxic anyway and it's just taking a slightly different form? Or is it creating toxicity where there wouldn't have been any? I'll be looking over the data in the coming days to start to make that distinction.

Some people are saying that this is an example of Riot shunning competitive 5s or indicating that Ranked Teams aren't as important as the Ranked Solo queue. That's simply not the case. I'm one of the biggest advocates for Ranked Teams in the entire company. Since I've been at Riot we've seen huge increases in the popularity of Ranked Teams, and we're only just getting started. The Season 3 Path to Pro that the eSports team put together is a great example of this. Did you know that you can eventually qualify for the Season 3 Championship Series just by making it to the top 32 of the Ranked 5s ladder during the preseason? I don't think a lot of people realize yet just how big of a deal that is. This means you play League of Legends professionally, receive a salary, play in a season with weekly scheduled matches, and compete for millions of dollars.

However, as much as I like Ranked Teams, it's a fact that doing well in those queues is as much about who you know as it is about your own individual skill. And generally I'm totally okay with that. I'm fine with people showing off their Platinum and Diamond badges on the forums even if they might not have been able to achieve that in solo queue (yes, even Morello). But when it comes to the loading screen, I'm much more concerned about the accuracy of what's being portrayed, because it's natural to read a lot into it in terms of raw player skill. Is it really better for everyone if we have Diamond borders showing up next to Silver borders in normal games? I think it would be confusing ("Why am I matched with these Diamond players if I'm Silver?" or "I don't play ranked, does this mean I'm a Silver player or a Diamond player?") and I think it could cause even more elitism than we're already seeing.

Going back to the point about the borders being an experiment. Originally, they were only going to be shown in Ranked games. You all asked for them to be shown in normals as well and after much deliberation I changed it to the current incarnation. Clearly not everyone is happy with that, so I'll keep gathering data and reading what you guys have to say, and make further changes if and when they're warranted.
The solution is simple. Make borders an accurate representation of someone's skill. As soon as someone hits a new tier give them a border. If someone is actually good, their border won't misrepresent them.

Also allow opponents to see borders. Then matchmaking is transparent so teammates can't just blame weaker teammates since everyone would see that the teams are balanced.


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iainB85

Senior Member

11-15-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delta Sniper View Post
So what your saying is i should wait to play my placement matches until this whole thing is fixed in a good way.
Or put your thick skin on


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Nutnoze

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Senior Member

11-15-2012

I honestly think normal 5v5 should show whichever is higher between solo and arranged team 5v5 and 3v3 should always show 3v3.

I didn't understand how borders work, now I have a silver border when I expected gold since it was never put out there, i'm kinda peeved since I stopped playing solo que (didn't want to deal with the rage that ensues half the time) once we got our team to gold.

Also, if a player has a high ranking in arranged teams and is playing normals, chances are they probably play with some of their friends anyways.


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Oberic

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Senior Member

11-15-2012

I like the borders, despite having silver in everything but ranked 3s this season (brutal losing streaks, betrayal by friends, etc.).
What's fun, is going into a normal with the Janna skin, as a silver-border, and people not understanding it.


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Ionstormn

Member

11-15-2012

I think removing borders would destroy the value of the rewards in season 2. The border is the only thing that separates solo queue from the other other queues. Without it, the reward value associated with solo queue specifically would be undermined. I think if anything there should be more chances to show borders, even add a way to see enemy borders at the end of the game. If you take away the value, it is meaningless.