Zed discussion thread, above average champ.

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Handsome Aniki

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoboLoL View Post
My only irks with him are kind of personal, though maybe not.

I play a lot of Dominion, and without constant minions to spam his E on, the shadow CD doesn't drop substantially unless in a team skirmish. So it takes a bit more planning: if I use my shadow now to harass them on their tower, will I not have it if we engage/are engaged on? This also leads into a problem with escaping: if you toss out your W ahead of you and reproc it to get a gap, you have already made half the distance to the shadow since it's seemingly cast-able while moving. Therefore you don't make much space between you and any champ with a gapcloser, and you're forced to sit there and get beaten down as you wish for those 15 seconds of shadow downtime to tick by faster. This is something I will slowly adapt to and work around by juking with my shadows, however, though it will still be tricky.

The other problem I have is related to energy. Since you fully rely on your clone to regenerate energy, and the CD is massive early, you'll find that not pacing your shurikens or actually missing the occasional one here and there (additionally, the AOE for his E is relatively small and it's easy to fluke it) or even not having a clone to dish out E's and Q's alongside you in a fight leads to OoE when it matters most. It seems a bit counter-intuitive to an assassin. This is definitely something that requires practice, champion know-how, and one day I'm certain I'll have it locked down. But it always hurts me to have someone I burst get away with a sliver of HP and I'm sitting there mashing Q to no avail.

Again, a lot of this is Dominion. Burst is much more powerful in Dom then the sustained damage output that Zed seems to apply. I love his style, kit, character, everything though. A high skill ceiling assassin that seems to have endless possibilities is alluring to me.
I know exactly how you feel. In the champion spotlight they definitely sugar-coated the way his W works as an escape function. Any champion with any level of gapcloser can easily deny your attempted so-to-speak 'juke'. It'd be nice if they increase the range of it slightly, since late game the CD is almost unnoticeable. As of now, I've never used his W to harass, because i'd only get stuck with the situation you listed above. Believe it or not he does have an "energy" issue, since he runs out so fast, you really need to ration your skills in lane.


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Kagami

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
His MS is pretty upsetting to look at, and his chasing ability, not the best.
you're calling 320 movement "upsetting", good post otherwise but 320 is pretty good.


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JìmmyQ

Member

11-14-2012

He seems to have a lot in his kit, but doesn't really excel at anything except being versatile. His burst is pretty low for an assassin, and he lacks lane sustain and CC. He does a lot of sustained damage, but survivablity in a team fight looks like a one way trip (hit R and dive for ADC). Unfortunately, Lack of initial damage on ult means that it's going to be hard to beat down that ADC before you go down.

Items with damage actives have the possibility of remedying this, but we'll be able to tell for sure come S3.

Also, having a fairly reliable way to gain energy like lee sin, akali, and shen would be nice. Currently launching a shadow attack + shuriken (and missing) seems to cost quit a lot in both CD and energy. It's easier to play it safe and spam Q in lane and save shadow for escapes or finishes.

Overall though i feel his roll can be filled better by other assassins, but he is pretty fun to play =)


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Agg

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Played some vs AI and 3 normal games. He definitely has potential. His E AOE feels tiny, and it appears that the "lower CD of W" doesn't take effect if a shadow is up. Both of these feel crappy.

Would it be fair to add the shadow time (4 seconds?) to the CD, but start the CD on cast rather than on shadow fade?

I.E. no change to the wait time between end of shadow and ability coming off CD when compared to now, but E's used when a shadow is out lowers the CD.

This would potentially hurt CDR builds since they wouldn't get the CD to be as small a number, but I think the E-reduction on CD of W would more than make up for it.

Also the slow is kind of short on E.

TLDR: Shadow Slash has a lot of potential but falls flat on pretty much every note.


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IS1f725087a5fe8d

Senior Member

11-14-2012

He needs minor utility buffs.

Increase shadow range by 100 (right now it's way too short)
Increase e range by 50 (again, won't affect much but your e hits the enemy now)
Give R front load damage (right now it feels so meh, a single target version of Vlad's ult that puts you in the middle of enemy's team and does 0 burst)


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Handsome Aniki

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Well, arguments aside, the reason I complained about his movement speed was because he does a horrible job at chasing. Other than his ult, and 1.5 second slow on like a 20 second cd early game, he has no real chasing option or reliable way to keep up with a chase.

The way I look at it, this thread is just a less whiny and more in-depth discussion thread. If you think he's UP / OP you've made a wrong turn here, if you think he could use some tweaks here and there by all means you're welcome to voice an opinion, I know these fellows are.


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AutumnDawn

Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by OdiIon View Post
Well, arguments aside, the reason I complained about his movement speed was because he does a horrible job at chasing. Other than his ult, and 1.5 second slow on like a 20 second cd early game, he has no real chasing option or reliable way to keep up with a chase.

The way I look at it, this thread is just a less whiny and more in-depth discussion thread. If you think he's UP / OP you've made a wrong turn here, if you think he could use some tweaks here and there by all means you're welcome to voice an opinion, I know these fellows are.
LOL. True. Anyways, have you tried adding 3 Movement Speed Quints? That might help him out a lot. Since this character needs to chase and run away sometimes.


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Handsome Aniki

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by x3RenRen View Post
LOL. True. Anyways, have you tried adding 3 Movement Speed Quints? That might help him out a lot. Since this character needs to chase and run away sometimes.
Tried it, lose a little edge in your jungle and your attacks early game, but works pretty well. I wouldn't argue against using it if I had to.

Just went 8/1/7 as a jungle Zed. Definitely lacks CC, but if your teammates can pack a CC your ganks are as good as golden. Current build I use that's most effective is.


Boots + 3 / Armor +5
Doran's Blade x2(Depending on how fed)
Rush Brut.
Phage,
BT if fed, Giant's belt if you can't afford a BF.

By the time I was level 14, with 237 AD.
Ionian Boots, 2 Doran's Blades, Phage, Brut, BF Sword. Living Shadow level 2
(10% Bonus AD)

People that have been complaining about his damage, I don't see an issue. I made assassinating AD/AP carries look stylish frankly. I don't see an issue with this champ, I'm in love with him frankly.


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AutumnDawn

Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by OdiIon View Post
Tried it, lose a little edge in your jungle and your attacks early game, but works pretty well. I wouldn't argue against using it if I had to.

Just went 8/1/7 as a jungle Zed. Definitely lacks CC, but if your teammates can pack a CC your ganks are as good as golden. Current build I use that's most effective is.


Boots + 3 / Armor +5
Doran's Blade x2(Depending on how fed)
Rush Brut.
Phage,
BT if fed, Giant's belt if you can't afford a BF.

By the time I was level 14, with 237 AD.
Ionian Boots, 2 Doran's Blades, Phage, Brut, BF Sword. Living Shadow level 2
(10% Bonus AD)

People that have been complaining about his damage, I don't see an issue. I made assassinating AD/AP carries look stylish frankly. I don't see an issue with this champ, I'm in love with him frankly.

Exactly! Same here! I even drew him! LOL.
Anyways, and that's without max W, so you'll probably hit 300 attack + or even more once you get more attack weapons like Blood Thirster..

But yeah, a lot of people are complaining that he's weak but what I really think is that they just blame that he's weak instead of their bad gameplay. Especially since he just came out.

He's my favorite Champion by far.


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Avatar ang

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by OdiIon View Post
Zed's skill kit is almost identical to Lee Sin's, with a few twists thrown in.
Sorry but Zed is nothing like Lee. Not even close.

Lee will chase you down and finish you off. Lee will Resonating Strike and Safeguard through walls and across the map to get you. You cannot escape Lee.

Zed only gets one chance to kill you. If you escape, you're gone and there's nothing he can do about it.