Fix Blackfire please

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VoidInsanity

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragias View Post
I would be concerned if issues similar to DFG didn't arise where with the items AP scaling becomes exponential. I believe Xyph was talking about it in his thread on the new Tiamat. Essentially since the %HP scales with AP as you get more AP you need exponentially less and less spells to kill someone as opposed to linearly.
That is why you'd make it so that you'd need a fair bit of AP to make it as strong as it is now, so people that lack AP dont get the damage. So mages that stack damage get even more damage but the tanks such as amumu or alistar don't get to exploit it.

The item needs to be unattractive to tanks, it currently isnt. Personally the HP on item needs to go, Haunting guise needs to be remade into a AP/CDR item same as the brutilizer. It'll make more sense and hopefully tanks won't want it. I'd rather the damage on the item stays, but the hp kinda needs to go, and the only way for the hp to go is to remake haunting guise. 700g for the blackfire passive and 15% cdr is too good atm.


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WaterD103

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Senior Member

11-14-2012

Sauron, I think you are mistaken at the intention of the mana regen attack. I think the idea was to buff non mana champions. I do not know if it was neccesary though.

Riotnome: The best way proven over years and years of gaming to change the paradigm of the non competitive players is to have a competitive scene that the casual play respect so they can look at it and learn "how the game is really played". So You do not want to discuss causation, because you know the history talks against the current terrible decision.


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Les Nomerables

Game Designer

11-14-2012
4 of 10 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by FOODFOOD View Post
I guess that's true. I was just a bit turned off by what he said, considering it's the high-elo people that are advocating for change - not so much low-elo, who have been adapting all along without really saying much. I guess that's what happens, though, when the vocal majority is a pretty small group.
The low elo have not been adapting. They've been quitting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WaterD103 View Post
Sauron, I think you are mistaken at the intention of the mana regen attack. I think the idea was to buff non mana champions. I do not know if it was neccesary though.

Riotnome: The best way proven over years and years of gaming to change the paradigm of the non competitive players is to have a competitive scene that the casual play respect so they can look at it and learn "how the game is really played". So You do not want to discuss causation, because you know the history talks against the current terrible decision.
This is fine and dandy when there's a solid infrastructure for knowledge percolation, but there isn't one for Dominion right now. SR is effectively the product of almost a decade of map development; Dominion has been here for about a year. Now, if I were eSports and Marketing, sure I could push for those things, but I'm a game designer, so I'm going to use the game to achieve my goals. This means attacking the problem symptomatically through mass outreach, not through seeding. A lot of this will be to fix perceptions, not just actual balance; as I said in my previous post, I want to institute change, and I want to do it now. Since this is the pre-season, there's really no better time to experiment. It may cause momentary disruption. You should expect that. There will be imba. You should also expect that. These changes will be beneficial not just for the scene, but for the health of the mode overall. Just be patient.


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AldrickExGladius

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
A lot of this will be to fix perceptions, not just actual balance; as I said in my previous post, I want to institute change, and I want to do it now.
You are my favorite Rioter because of this. It's more than just balance that needs fixing, and I'm sure the Dominion community will back you with any changes to improve the Crystal Scar.


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HaIfhearted

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by AldrickExGladius View Post
You are my favorite Rioter because of this. It's more than just balance that needs fixing, and I'm sure the Dominion community will back you with any changes to improve the Crystal Scar.
After the implementation of Blackfire Torch, I'm not so sure about that.
There has been a lot of hate going on, and it is almost all centered around Teemo with the Torch.
It's not pretty.


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Nyx87

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Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaIfhearted View Post
After the implementation of Blackfire Torch, I'm not so sure about that.
There has been a lot of hate going on, and it is almost all centered around Teemo with the Torch.
It's not pretty.
Teemo was already an issue. Blackfire Torch is a bit too much in the right direction. We needed a Haunting guise upgrade, but not something this bonkers. CDR/HP/AP/MPEN is more than enough, the passive can be placed elsewhere.


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HaIfhearted

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyx87 View Post
Teemo was already an issue. Blackfire Torch is a bit too much in the right direction. We needed a Haunting guise upgrade, but not something this bonkers. CDR/HP/AP/MPEN is more than enough, the passive can be placed elsewhere.
Agreed. The DoT from Torch NEEDS to go.

Replace it with the active from Hextech Sweeper, and then remove Sweeper or something, because right now Torch obsoletes Sweeper in every way sans movespeed, and Sweeper didn't have movespeed before this patch.

That burn is just abusive with DoT champions, and it needs to go.


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hotfire

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
. If BFT proves to be too strong (yes, it probably is), then it'll be changed one way or another.
I'm kinda wondering why you decided to change the "current HP" part to "max HP" at the same time as the other stat and recipe changes. I'm just happy Haunting Guise has an upgrade that gives it more AP and CD, and couldnt really care much about the %hp tickers even if it is overpowered. Maybe they could be two items? Old recipe BFT with "max HP" damage, and Guise upgrade with more AP and CD?


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Ragias

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Is the DoT procced similar to how Rylai's is procced?

I feel a lot of the community thinks Dom is a joke because the perceive Riot taking it as a joke. Maybe if it looked more legit by Riot saying it is pretty darn balanced for competitive play and then supporting a Dominion competitive scene, with at least ranked but preferably tournies with real money on the line. I bet more people would take it seriously if there was a $2 mil tourney at the end.

The same would also help TT.

Now that would be if you were in eSports are Marketing (Why aren't those guys supporting these?), but you are not. So what DO you see as the biggest current issues for Dominion (and I guess TT, but that recently got pretty much a complete overhaul)?


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Sauron

Senior Member

11-14-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
The low elo have not been adapting. They've been quitting.
Everyone I run into in high Elo seems to be ready to quit now too. I can't say I don't sympathize. "RiotNome" is quickly becoming the sarcastic meme response in allchat, and a discussion on how specious the changes so far are comes up every 7 or so minutes in the DD chat.

BFT needs to be hotfixed or removed. It serves nothing other than to cause frustration from the players of champions it is supposed to help, and to cause resentment from players of all Elos because it confirms their feedback isn't wanted.

Look, we don't mind us being a testing ground during this pre-season, but don't act like the issues with the map haven't been identified because buzzword buzzword buzzword. We aren't interviewing you; we're trying to help you do the right thing. We know exactly what's wrong with the map and what changes need to be made. Many of us are game designers ourselves, after all.


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