Thornmail.

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CrazyMetalHead

Junior Member

11-13-2012

This may be dumb for a level 25 to be asking, but I know absolutely nothing about thornmail, besides that is provides armor.

So, my first question is: Does the damage returned by thornmail also count again crit damage?

Also, does it's passive work against abilities, or only basic attacks?

(This has to do with it's effectiveness against high crit damage abilities, such as critplank's q)

Finally, does it stack?

Thank you for answering my questions, I really appreciate it!


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Orbital Nuke

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Recruiter

11-13-2012

Thornmail delivers its damage of a % of ANY physical damage... Before armor calculations.
The damage from thornmail is reduced by magic resistance.

The passive is unique so the armor wont stack.


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67chrome

Senior Member

11-13-2012

Yes, it returns critical strike damage.

The only abilities it works on are ones that are considered an auto-attack for all intents and purposes, or abilities that simply modify an auto-attack. Gangplank's Parrrley, Miss Fortune's Double-Up, Ezreal's Mystic Shot, Shyvana's Twin Bite, and Fiora's Blade Waltz are the only "abilities" that really are effected by thornmail (that I can think of ATM, there are probably a few more), and all of them can apply on-hit effects (such as Tiamat) but won't apply Rylies. All the abilities that are effected by thornmail are also effected by the 10% auto-attack damage reduction on Ninja Tabi.

Anything labbled as "Unique" Doesn't stack, so you'll only get the 30% damage reflected once. (Everything that doesn't have "Unique" in front of it does stack - which includes the bonus health from Warmogs, bonus damage and life steal from The Bloodthirster, and splash damage from Tiamat, among other things).

The other interesting thing about thornmail is that it returns damage before it's mitigated by your armor, so the passive actually gets stronger the more armor you have (if you have more than 70% damage reduction you can end up dealing as much damage to your attacker as they deal to you). Thornmail returns damage as magic damage though, so you can reduce the sting with magic resistance. If you want 30% life steal to counter the 30% returned damage, you need to get your magic resistance to the same value as your target's armor (which generally involves a mix of armor penetration and magic resistance). If you want your thornmail to be more effective, get more armor and possibly spell penetration - reduced healing effects will also reduce life steal by 50% (Ignite, Grevious Wounds), which would cause your attacker to need 60% life steal with an equal amount of effective magic resistance to your effective armor to not hurt themselves with it.

Anyways, here's the LoL Wiki article on Thornmail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orbital Nuke View Post
Thornmail delivers its damage of a % of ANY physical damage... Before armor calculations.
This isn't true, it only reflects damage for auto-attacks (or abilities flagged as auto-attacks). Physical-damage abilities such as Ashe's Volley or Riven's Broken Wings do not incur reflected damage from thornmail, as well as the vast majority of physical damage abilities (100 armor still helps out substantially against such abilities though). It can reflect damage from various magic-damage "attacks" as well, such as Warwick's Infinite Duress.


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JustMyBassCannon

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Senior Member

11-13-2012

Even though others have answered, I'll go ahead and do the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyMetalHead View Post
This may be dumb for a level 25 to be asking, but I know absolutely nothing about thornmail, besides that is provides armor.
Well, thank you for asking; this IS the Item Discussion forum after all, where all we talk about is item design, function and concepts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyMetalHead View Post
So, my first question is: Does the damage returned by thornmail also count again crit damage?
Yes, Criticals are calculated in Thornmail's return.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyMetalHead View Post
Also, does it's passive work against abilities, or only basic attacks?

(This has to do with it's effectiveness against high crit damage abilities, such as critplank's q)
Only basic attacks are reflected, although a select few spells are treated as auto attacks; these spells--Parrrley, Urchin Strike, Double Up and Mystic Shot--are marked on their tooltips with "applies on-hit effects" to let you know. Also, any spells that apply one time to a basic attack, such as Siphon Strike or Twin Bite, apply the damage return.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyMetalHead View Post
Finally, does it stack?
No. As you'll see, it says on the item that it is a Unique passive; this means that buying 2 Thornmails will not give you a 60% damage return (it WILL give 200 Armor, although it's really not worth buying two of them for that).

If an item ability is marked "Unique" then it means it won't stack if you buy two of the same item. If an item ability is marked "Unique" AND has a special name, such as Tenacity, then it won't stack across any items with that named ability.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyMetalHead View Post
Thank you for answering my questions, I really appreciate it!
No problem