FeralPony and Roku Discuss Preseason Changes

First Riot Post
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Muzzowolf

Junior Member

11-13-2012

Interesting....gonna take a look....i hope they won't change too much, or i'll have to rethink everything xdd


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MaxScorpionMax

Junior Member

11-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ekohz View Post
Taric has no AD ratios, but does that not make him resourceful?

200 shatters, 400 ult, 200 stun and heal CD procs while your whomping 600 crits on enemies with your 395-420 movement speed.

people need to stop playing the way people want them to, and play the way they want.
But then just think about Riven who DOES have AD ratios! Isn't she ressourcefull?

130 from Q, 200 ult, 170 from stun and a shield of 180 while your whomping 600 crits on ennemies with your 395-420 movement speed.

Oh but wait, I did a mistake! Since she HAS AD ratios, her spells actually do 330, 500, 470 and she shields herself for 480.
Basically more damage/sustain from spells then Taric AD while ahving the same exact damage from auto-attacks. There is a reason why AD champs are palyed AD and AP champs are played AP...


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MaxScorpionMax

Junior Member

11-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiral Continuum View Post
I like the idea of adding more masteries but, between the two posts... I have to say it may completely kill my back-door Nasus Surge+Siege Commander with teleport.

That build used to say "oh, we're having a full-team turret defense bot? Well that means you lose your second and inhibitor turrets top!
Well I guess the mastery that reduces turret's damage and the use of barrier will let you do the same thing. A little slower I have to admit, but you won't lose more healt then you did before


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S20G Treble

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Senior Recruiter

11-13-2012

So your big plan to diversify Summoner Spell selection is to raise the CD on Flash and Ignite, while removing Surge and Promote, adding Barrier and nerfing Heal.

That's a pretty smart way of saying "We want everything to change and have variation, so your new choices are options A, A....and A.

There's no way you can make Flash's CD long enough to tone down it's viability, unless we're talking a CD competitive with Revive, and a lot of Flash dependant players combo with ignite for FB or early game kills finishing a low health enemy under the turret, ya know that thing that's supposed to protect you, but can't when someone Flash's in just close enough to ignite then run off like they actually used skill to secure the kill.

I like using Surge on Graves personally, mixing that with his Quickdraw is an awesome combo for early pressure and turret elimination. It's also pretty awesome on an earlier game Teemo or an AP Teemo if your not dedicating yourself strictly to AS. There's a lot of other champions who benefit from it as well. Kayle, Xin Zhao, Warwick, Kog'Maw.

What you SHOULD do is just remove Flash, stop nerfing it and just get rid of it, then players would actually have to choose other spells since PVP matches won't be anywhere from 6/10 to 9/10 Flash on average. EVERYONE grabs Flash, because the only way to counter Flash is by taking Flash. Heal counters Ignite and Surge is countered by Exhaust, at least Heal was the counter but now your nerfing Heal so idk really. Barrier is going to last half the duration of Ignite so it'll be kind of a counter but meh I'm not looking forward to Barrier, it's just a turtle spell to negate burst damage which will render a lot of Burst based champions a lot less effective in mid to late game team fights.

Don't add Barrier, remove Flash and if you want less people to take ignite, remove the grievous wounds from it, effectively nerfed. That alone makes every champion who has a grievous wounds effect more viable (Miss Fortune, Tristana, Fizz, ect.), it also makes the Executioners Calling and Morello's Evil Tome more viable in itemization, and allows champions who are heal based or have healing as part of their kits (Swain, Fiddlesticks, Mundo, Warwick,ect.) to become more stable presences in the game.

It really sucks playing as Fiddlesticks or Swain to see the enemy is 4/5 Ignite, that puts the game in hard mode. As far as "Promoting aggressive gameplay and diversity in itemization and champion selection", I believe the changes currently proposed are very counter-intuitive to that purpose. Now everybody is going to run Flash/Ignite, except for those who ran heal which will now toss up between Heal and Barrier.

If you guys want to promote the aggressive gameplay here's some "counter ideas"

Remove the Grievous Wounds from Ignite, increase the damage by 10-15% to compensate.

Remove Flash, or effectively nerf it by discontinuing it's ability to jump over walls.

Keep Surge, consider increasing the AS and AP boosts by 10% from their current values. The new math for armor and magic penetration should allow Surge to remain competitive with general carry and mid itemization. Also Kayle + Surge - <3 with her passive, soooo good.

Ditch Promote in favor of your "Promote the item edition", Promote is fun but in the end it's kinda blah and loses it's use when you lose cannon minions. It's great early game but loses a lot of it's push ability as the game goes on.

Combine Heal with Clarity

Don't add Barrier

Make the residual buff from Cleanse an 80% chance to resist all debuffs for 3 seconds, with a mastery investment up to 4 seconds. Or reduce it to a flat 2 seconds of complete immunity from debuffs and remove the QSS from the game since it's nowhere near money efficient to purchase and basically does what Cleanse does anyway.

Increase the duration of the Clairvoyance vision by 1 second and the vision radius by 10-15%, or make Clairvoyance passively increase ward vision range by 10% and replace the ward vision mastery with something else.

Remove Revive, it really is kind of a joke to take, you be trolling hard.

SUPER BUFF TELEPORT - If your Teleport is canceled or if the target is gone and the Teleport cannot be completed the CD becomes 30 seconds, NOT HALF TP'S CD (180 seconds), you make canceling teleport render the spell unuseable, and that makes it pretty uber suck.

Then the spells will be a lot more balanced, no more flashing over the trees or the walls to escape will greatly depreciate the overall value of flash, but the ability to still quickly advance up or down a lane for an aggression or a retreat will not be lost. You should still be able to escape a moderate amount of ganks with it.

Ignite will maintain it's ability to add DPS, similar to Surge without immediately removing the viability of healing/sustain based champions form the game entirely while dual promoting the value of items that add grievous wounds to targets. This will also promote a more skill based gameplay on behalf of the player because it won't automatically secure a kill for you.

Other summoner spells will be enhanced to provide competitive value during the laning and team fight phases WITHOUT rendering burst based AP champions useless and allow for more interesting duels in the top and mid lanes, without immediately killing the potential for bottom lane either.

Oh and about lane killing, reduce the range of Blitzcranks rocket grab from 925 to 700. That'll also reduce stagnant gameplay to a certain degree, and actually allow him some potential game time in Draft and Ranked selection. I know he's not an item or a mastery but I thought I'd add that while ranting.

Also increase the surrender timer to 30 minutes from 20, or remove it. It sucks so bad when the enemy team has a couple of early kills and you can still could come back and rally, just to have a team member completely lose heart in the match and not even try anymore. Then when 20 minutes hits they just spam surrender until the match is over.

OH and as a final note, I've heard rumor that one of the proposed items is a ward item that has charges and refreshes whenever you recall to your base. If that's the case REMOVE PASSIVE GOLD FROM ITEMS. Supports can get the $$'s with runes and possibly with masteries post changes along with bonus gold from assists if they def. tree and with the lowered pressure of investing in wards there should be no need to complain about how they can't get gold, so we don't need passive gold anymore, or at least we shouldn't. The loss of passive gold would greatly promote active gameplay because you'd HAVE to get more kills and assists to compensate for the loss of getting gold for sitting there and doing nothing.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents. I'm looking forward to the mastery changes, the last time the trees were revamped there were a lot, lot, lot of positive changes, but if your going to change the summoner spells "to make gameplay more diverse and competitive" don't lie to us all by making it NOT divers and competitive. I personally feel that those changes would make the spells a lot more amazing and actually give you the improvments to gameplay that your looking for without stagnating the game any more than it currently does.

If you only raise Flash's CD more, which will innefectively nerf it just like the first time you raised it's CD, I think Season 3 will still be a very "League of Flash" styled gameplay.


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IlIllIlIlIIl

Junior Member

11-13-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by FeralPony View Post
This specifically has changed. You are correct Lifesteal didn't really belong in the offense tree. Lifesteal and Spellvamp are now bundled into the same mastery inside Utility. While it may not be popular among AD carry players to lose the LS from the offense tree, Utility as a whole has been made a more attractive choice for all character types.
As an AD main, why is it that every change you guys talk about makes me think I'm being nerfed or things that can insta-gib me are being buffed? I'm really not looking forward to any of this.


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Finklesteen

Junior Member

11-13-2012

Reducing the effect of heal?

Most people use Ignite so healing in general is already reduced.
Would be great if the heal reduction from ignite was reduced.


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Roku

QA Analyst

11-13-2012
13 of 20 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Disillusion View Post
Since the reason you introduced these two spells in the first place was to replace Rally and Fortify because no one used them... now that even less people use Surge and Promote, can you admit that you failed? You replaced two spells no one used with two different spells that no one used.
Yes - we do admit that they didn't work well.

Promote was OK for its intended use - but we feel like as a strategic choice it is better fit on an item. This allows us to control the effect in many different ways than a Summoner Spell does (who buys it, when it becomes available in a game, and how much cost you're paying for the effect).

As for Surge - we definitely missed the mark. Originally Surge was envisioned as a team oriented spell, something similar to old Rally. After a few iterations it had to be toned down, but we didn't want to make the user feel worse for taking it. As it stands now, it does come down to which spell is going to give you more damage - Ignite or Surge. In an overwhelming majority of cases, Ignite will actually give you more mileage even if Surge sounds better. This becomes especially true later in the game as Ignite ignores armor / magic resist. Surge was fun to cast, and had good synergy with a particular couple champions - but a majority of the time it was actually a trap. There were some fun aspects of it - turret pushing, clever edge case uses, and getting bigger, but it overall was a false choice.


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Lakez

Senior Member

11-13-2012

when will people recieve their icons and janna skins?


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Anrita

Senior Member

11-13-2012

"Had", past tense? Does that mean Surge is going away?

I mean, sure, it's not a good choice for all champions, but for the those it does work well with, it's a great pick and a lot of fun. I'd rather have more summoner spells to choose from where not all of them work well on all champions than a small number of summoner spells that are useful on almost anyone. Variety is the spice of life.


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DiabloXray

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Junior Member

11-13-2012

Fortify was amazing. It was the only skill i used as a support or tank while supporting a carry. It ensures easy kills to those champs who were greedy for kills n tower dove. I wish it came back.