Way to bring ranged champs back into TT

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StevieHawking

Junior Member

11-12-2012

I was playing TT competitively for a few weeks before the switch, and managed to get to gold. I've been enjoying several aspects of the new map, but have noticed that ranged champions have even less of a place now.

Bruisers also have a HUGE advantage over ranged units because there are no wards. This makes it impossible to gain vision around corners without walking around them, or having an item taking up a slot with very poor stats (grez'z or sweeper). This is making ranged champions who need vision useless in fights that take place in the jungle, which is 90% of where the action is. I can understand that wards might become far too powerful a tool for map control, by making it impossible to press for objectives with very little money.

Solution: Wards won't work. With two wards on that map, you can completely zone out the potential for any aggressive play. However, having a consumable that has the same duration grez's lantern with the same area, range and effect as their pink and green ward counter parts would solve this. It would still take up a slot, but the investment would be far lower, and not be on a one minute cooldown.

Also, one of the problems with BotRK is that it's range is too small to be used effectively on most ranged champions. Melee champions get much more out of the item because they don't have to put themselves out of position to use it aggressively. Perhaps extend the range of the item to match the aa range of ranged champions, similarly to Trist's e?


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George W Nome

Game Designer

11-12-2012
1 of 4 Riot Posts

The consumable reveal has been an option on the table for a while. Also, CV is always there


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Journeyboy

Senior Member

11-12-2012

And this is why I play Ashe


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USnip

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Member

11-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
The consumable reveal has been an option on the table for a while.
That honestly sounds miserable. I would feel bad basically casting an ability that costs gold each time.


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Redenbacher

Senior Member

11-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by USnip View Post
That honestly sounds miserable. I would feel bad basically casting an ability that costs gold each time.
You hate buying potions?


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George W Nome

Game Designer

11-12-2012
2 of 4 Riot Posts

There's some truth in what he says. The League community actually is pretty good about buying transitories and consumables. It was a big design challenge in HoN/DotA to get players excited about warding and dusting. That's actually the biggest concern with a consumable reveal... there's a lot less clear satisfaction behind using the item. It's like a failed CV; it's very binary, and while knowing where your opponent isn't is useful, it doesn't feel as good.

All I can say for now is that it's a recognized issue, and we're looking into a whole host of different solutions for it.


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Amythist

Senior Member

11-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
The consumable reveal has been an option on the table for a while. Also, CV is always there
I'm curious, would it be OP to add an effect similar to The Lightbringer's passive to Grez's and return it to the Sweeper?

for those that don't know, on Dominion Lightbringer and Sweeper have passives that grant vision of your target for a few seconds, on regular attacks for Lightbringer, and Spells for Sweeper, making it easier to stick to people that would try and bush juke or stealth escape


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Boagster

Senior Member

11-12-2012

@RiotNome: Tried CV. It usually feels underwhelming, since you are giving up a teamfight tool. It is definitely an option for a less tanky team (who are more at risk of ganks), but, even then, I feel it's usually a bad choice. I love the vision items, though.


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George W Nome

Game Designer

11-12-2012
3 of 4 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amythist View Post
I'm curious, would it be OP to add an effect similar to The Lightbringer's passive to Grez's and return it to the Sweeper?

for those that don't know, on Dominion Lightbringer and Sweeper have passives that grant vision of your target for a few seconds, on regular attacks for Lightbringer, and Spells for Sweeper, making it easier to stick to people that would try and bush juke or stealth escape
I dislike this effect because it removes gameplay (no juking, can't stealth, etc). League doesn't tend to do stealth-bundling; what I mean by this is that stealth is usually a standalone effect. So if you take away the stealth aspect, that champion generally is completely vulnerable (I generally don't like this from a design aspect). The only exception here (AFAIK) is Twitch, whose stealth is bundled with a movement speed bonus. The "dumb vision" tagging on Lightbringer and the old Hextech Sweeper was a necessity back in the day of long-term strategic stealths, but since we've done away with all of those, I want to phase them out. Lightbringer will remain in Dominion for now, because Dominion is a very different atmosphere, but don't expect them to return to TT.


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FossaFerox

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Senior Member

11-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
I dislike this effect because it removes gameplay (no juking, can't stealth, etc). League doesn't tend to do stealth-bundling; what I mean by this is that stealth is usually a standalone effect. So if you take away the stealth aspect, that champion generally is completely vulnerable (I generally don't like this from a design aspect). The only exception here (AFAIK) is Twitch, whose stealth is bundled with a movement speed bonus. The "dumb vision" tagging on Lightbringer and the old Hextech Sweeper was a necessity back in the day of long-term strategic stealths, but since we've done away with all of those, I want to phase them out. Lightbringer will remain in Dominion for now, because Dominion is a very different atmosphere, but don't expect them to return to TT.
If you're seriously considering doing anything to make ranged AD more viable on TT, start by removing warden's mail and Randuin's omen. The passive slow that it procs on attackers makes kiting impossible, and kiting is the only thing ranged ADCs can do well on the map.


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