Item Preview Dust Sweeping

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TheTreeGod

Junior Member

11-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
A lot of Pro player feedback centers around this fact as well. They tend to hate Oracle sweeping being a concept and would prefer the game revolve more around Pink Ward strategies.
Did junglers say that or supports?(Or both) Because I could see why Supports would hate Oracle sweeping, oracle sweeping however makes infinitely more sense on Junglers than pink ward countering.


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Crs Xpecial

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Recruiter

11-10-2012

With Heart of Gold out of the picture, I believe every support player is wondering if there will be more choices for builds coming out of gold per 10s. Currently, Philo stone builds into Reverie, HoG (scheduled to be deleted) goes into Locket/Randuins, while Kage's and Avarice are only there for the gold per 10s.

Will Kage's actually be upgradable into something useful? If so, care to share?


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BFIceBrand

Senior Member

11-10-2012

@Xypherous Now that MBR is gone what should we get for attack speed LuLu now or any dps hybrid ranged champ?


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ploki122

Senior Member

11-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTreeGod View Post
Did junglers say that or supports?(Or both) Because I could see why Supports would hate Oracle sweeping, oracle sweeping however makes infinitely more sense on Junglers than pink ward countering.
Pinking and sweeping are 2 different matters... first of all, not ever junglers can adopt an early oracle path, meaning that the sweeping would have to wait. Next, the sweeping is more about permanently removing wards, where pink is simply reserving a spot on the map where they can't ward (and temporarily removing their vision, without revealing the jungler.


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ploki122

Senior Member

11-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by BFIceBrand View Post
@Xypherous Now that MBR is gone what should we get for attack speed LuLu now or any dps hybrid ranged champ?
A decent AS item like wits end, malady, Nashor's tooth (since you're more after AS than on-hit) Statikk's shiv, maybe tiamat depending on the buff
EDIT : Oh and BoRK, physical or not, it still works on on-hits.

EDIT2: @Xpecial... is that a cam? or a gun? or a guncorder?


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MLGjungler

Member

11-10-2012

Hog removed... dosnt that kill alot of junglers... but then again you dont like support junglers just weak ass melee carrie junglers... pretty sad about some of this. considering i main junglers....


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TheTreeGod

Junior Member

11-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ploki122 View Post
Pinking and sweeping are 2 different matters... first of all, not ever junglers can adopt an early oracle path, meaning that the sweeping would have to wait. Next, the sweeping is more about permanently removing wards, where pink is simply reserving a spot on the map where they can't ward (and temporarily removing their vision, without revealing the jungler.
I understand the way Oracles sweeping works... I know sometimes it has to wait and pinks are the only option early or can be used to control an area.

I'm just curious as to if pro junglers actually dislike Oracle Sweeping... or if it's just supports who dislike it. Oracles seems more obvious and useable for Junglers as the game progresses because they go around the map a lot as it is. Supports on the other hand, I could understand hating it because they don't walk all over the place naturally, even late game they don't want to separate from their team the way a jungler may be able to constantly clearing wards.


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Queso Queen

Senior Member

11-10-2012

Can we get a new map that has you sitting in base and sending out the hextech chickens to fight

We can call it rooster wars.
Or chicken coup.chicken co-op? Chicken coop.


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I Am Tolan

Senior Member

11-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
I don't usually follow all of the TT stuff since I'm pretty heads down in making sure all of this works out in SR. I typically get tunnel vision when I'm working on something.
what a guy, up at 330 in the morning.......... what a guy.


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Phatshady912

Senior Member

11-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
% health true damage doesn't counter tanks. It just counters everyone equally - so if it's good enough to counter tanks - you should just get it every game.

It also generally gets terrible feedback in testing. You essentially start invalidating entire classes from playing the game due if the baseline counter is this.
Being honest here. That does not make sense.

MBR and DFG were made to give people a way to damage extremely high HP tanks were they not?

The problem with the items is that they are countered by MR which is primarily built by those same champions.

Changing it to true damage fixes this problem.

% health true damage does not counter everyone equally.

You are spending gold on the item in order to do % health true damage. That is gold you are not spending on stats that scale better which make you very strong vs squishies. It is a trade off, you are now more effective at killing tanks, but less effective per gold spent at killing squishies.

As an example lets say I could build a bonus 80 AD worth of items or a 3% of max health in true damage proc from new MBR for the same price.

On a 4000 hp 200 armor/MR Mundo I will be dealing an extra ~27 damage per hit with the +80 AD (up to ~40 with LW, and stacking exponentially with crit/lifesteal/and AS).

At the same time I could get this new MBR and be dealing an extra 120 damage a hit. (only scaling with attack speed).

This imo is a good item. It fills the niche those items were originally meant to fill. Now if you look at it vs a squishier target you can see that the 80AD is the better option when you consider its exponential scaling with crit/as/dmg, and it will scale much much better into the late game.

Now lets compare 80 AD vs 3% max health true dmg vs an AD carry with little to no defensive items.

Lets say Ashe has 2k HP and 100 armor.

New true damage MBR would do 60 true damage per hit (Once again scaling only with AS.)

the +80 AD would do an extra 40 damage after armor and ~54 damage after LW.

Now some people might read this and think "See? this % true damage is still better on squishies!" But that is wrong. It might do slightly more damage with no other items. But you throw in crit/lifesteal/attack speed, and this 54 damage greatly out classes 60 true damage vs a low defense/hp target.

TL/DR If you implement % max health true damage versions of DFG/MBR with the right numbers they can be balanced to be effective against tanks and sub-optimal for the cost against squishies.