Item Preview – Dust Sweeping

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Aphoristic

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Senior Member

11-10-2012

Are there any changes coming to Sunfire Cape or Thornmail? They always seem to be outclassed by Frozen Heart and Randulin's Omen.

I mean the problem seems to obviously be that both items require some magic penetration for their passives to deal any significant amount of damage. There aren't many champions who want to have magic penetration and heavy armor either.


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Michalc

Junior Member

11-10-2012

Quote:
Ionic Spark only fully synergizes with one or two champions (Shen, Gangplank),
Wickd laughed at this for sure.
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How about manaless top champs, which wants to build gp/5 items right now? I doubt they gonna build Philo/Kages. Removing hog = making people counterpicked, to be ****ed-up even more.


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SirGregarious

Senior Member

11-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Force of Nature - Removed

Force of Nature has been the go-to high MR item for tanks who want to counter magic damage. The item, however, is kind of confusing. Is it a movement speed option for fighters and tanks? Or is it meant to be a regeneration item in sieges? Force of Nature’s odd stat combination made it particularly difficult to make it feel like a quality purchase. One of its attributes was probably redundant or unnecessary on your character.

Alternative: Spirit Visage

Spirit Visage is getting a slight touch up for the preseason. It will now build out of Negatron Cloak instead of Null Magic Mantle, and Spirit Visage’s passive is getting a bump in power. Additionally, there are a lot more Tier 2.5 items that offer Magic Resistance, allowing you to more easily spec into Magic Resistance without wasting slot efficiency.
I really hope the new items will be REAL alternatives to Force of Nature. As it stands, Spirit Visage isn't anything close to the role of Force. It feels bad to have a core item of your favorite build on your favorite champion just taken away. On-Hit Twisted Fates were completely disappointed by the removal of Sword of the Divine, but they got an incredibly similar item that almost did the exact same thing. I just don't know how I'm going to play Mordekaiser if I can't rush Force of Nature.


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MaskedCrusader10

Senior Member

11-10-2012

Quote:
There is an item that gives 100% attack speed.
My imagination went wild with this one going from a new Recurved Bow upgrade to a Youmuu's Ghostblade v2.0.


Well that does it, now I really can't sleep. :')

Thank you for everything. <3




(Good night. I'm going to try and bash myself to sleep. It's 4:45 AM on the East Coast after all... ;__; )


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Lostshard

Senior Member

11-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by SirGregarious View Post
I really hope the new items will be REAL alternatives to Force of Nature. As it stands, Spirit Visage isn't anything close to the role of Force. It feels bad to have a core item of your favorite build on your favorite champion just taken away. On-Hit Twisted Fates were completely disappointed by the removal of Sword of the Divine, but they got an incredibly similar item that almost did the exact same thing. I just don't know how I'm going to play Mordekaiser if I can't rush Force of Nature.
Zileas was covering this issue in another post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
We will put out more details over the next week. I feel like we are giving you guys a lot of information, and honestly, if we give too much all at once, a lot of key details are going to get washed out in the noise. So, we get it, MR itemization is needed if we are pulling HON. We will deliver. It will be suitable for the roles you are concerned about


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BFIceBrand

Senior Member

11-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
The problem with MBR is that it looks like a counter-item to tanks - but in all actuality, IE + PD is a far far better counter to tanks than MBR's % maximum health damage ever will.

Why is this true?

This is due to the fact that if you look at an end-game build for say.. Fortune, you might get to 1900 health. Why if you look at an end-game build for say.. Shen, you might see him at 50% more health.

However, the key fault here is that tank/bruisers are defined by resistances - not health. Thus a high health-shredder is actually pretty poor at doing so. While MBR will do more raw damage to Shen than Fortune, the reality of the matter is that, after magic resistance, you'd need like 80% magic penetration to make it deal more actual damage to Shen than Miss Fortune.

Secondly, think about the item's build path. A counter item that sits at 3800 gold isn't really a counter-item. Nor does it help you anywhere along the way up to that counter-item in terms of what you need or want to do.

Thirdly, let's say we buffed MBR, who does this actually benefit? Well, in all actuality, it buffs tanky fighters and lets them kill squishy targets faster. At its core, MBR is a fighter item - not a ranged carry item - and while it being a fighter item *might* be fine - its real sin is that it's a anti-squishy item for bruisers that pretends to be an anti-bruiser item for squishies.

So the "conditional" here is that MBR will never actually do what on-hit proc characters want it to do - be an avenue to help them versus high health men - because MBR is most effective *on* high-health men trying to kill you - which means that it's just not a good 'niche' item. It blatantly does the opposite of what it appears to be for.

There is an item that gives 100% attack speed.

For a very very short time.

.

Is it not the Bruisers Job to jump on the ADC and take them out of the fight and according to your logic the AD-carry should be fine once that have and IE + Pd right? So a fair game right
? So whats the real reason for removing MBR? Also your replacement MBR is really weaker than MBR and has really little sustain..Also what about the damage bonus damage to creeps and armor ?

Also I never saw MBR as an anti-tank Item..In truth its and anti-bruiser / AD- carry Item.


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Fox P McCloud

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Senior Member

11-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
I could rename Blade of the Ruined King 'Madred's Bloodrazor' on Summoner's Rift if you'd like.
Please don't, Blade of the Ruined King is more appropriate---it's not a razor, after all =p

Also, could we discuss Manamune and Blade's passives; why were both designed with diminishing DPS over time? This seems counter-intuitive to what AD oriented characters who auto-attack a lot would want.

It makes less sense on manamune than BotRK, IMO---I think a lot of players would prefer to drain their mana faster, but deal consistently high DPS than to always have the passive on, but it becoming effectually useless at low mana.


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Queso Queen

Senior Member

11-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lostshard View Post
to answer number 2



Does not say active so
Indeed it does not however I asked to be sure for a reason. If it is an active passive what is its cd? if not, can you imagine the ways this can be abused? Look at rammus for example, how will his ganks go now? Can you imagine an Udyr with this running at you? (oh god stun inc!) Just the abuse of this items passive is what is worrysome. Can you imagine an MF+Janna combo with this on bottom? Will being hit remove the passive for a short duration or are you just screwed in trying to catch the adc now or jungler that chooses to use this (shy/udyr/shen).


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timtwins

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Senior Member

11-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Well, the Black Cleaver rework pretty much removes the current Black Cleaver from the game - it just keeps the name because it accomplishes something similar.

So doing what you'd suggest pretty much removes the current MBR from the game... which is.. basically the same result.

I could rename Blade of the Ruined King 'Madred's Bloodrazor' on Summoner's Rift if you'd like.



Ghostblade + Last Whisper and ask someone on your team to get Black Cleaver. GO GO ARMOR SHRED!
I actually think renaming it Madred's Bloodrazor would be kinda cool


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gitykins

Member

11-10-2012

Essentially, by removing some of these items, you intentionally pidgeonhole certain champions into static build paths. See new Irelia build with Ionic Spark. Be honest, Irelia can't do anything with the new Tiamat, I don't care what it is, unless its recipe has recurve bow/zeal. You are forcing Irelia players to go back to TF, GA, Wit's End, Randuin's. For removing FoN, you are FORCING Singed players to build whatever new stuff you have cooked up. I am very sad about the removal of these items.