Item Preview Dust Sweeping

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Euclide

Junior Member

11-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
The problem with MBR is that it looks like a counter-item to tanks - but in all actuality, IE + PD is a far far better counter to tanks than MBR's % maximum health damage ever will.

Why is this true?

This is due to the fact that if you look at an end-game build for say.. Fortune, you might get to 1900 health. Why if you look at an end-game build for say.. Shen, you might see him at 50% more health.

However, the key fault here is that tank/bruisers are defined by resistances - not health. Thus a high health-shredder is actually pretty poor at doing so. While MBR will do more raw damage to Shen than Fortune, the reality of the matter is that, after magic resistance, you'd need like 80% magic penetration to make it deal more actual damage to Shen than Miss Fortune.

Secondly, think about the item's build path. A counter item that sits at 3800 gold isn't really a counter-item. Nor does it help you anywhere along the way up to that counter-item in terms of what you need or want to do.

Thirdly, let's say we buffed MBR, who does this actually benefit? Well, in all actuality, it buffs tanky fighters and lets them kill squishy targets faster. At its core, MBR is a fighter item - not a ranged carry item - and while it being a fighter item *might* be fine - its real sin is that it's a anti-squishy item for bruisers that pretends to be an anti-bruiser item for squishies.

So the "conditional" here is that MBR will never actually do what on-hit proc characters want it to do - be an avenue to help them versus high health men - because MBR is most effective *on* high-health men trying to kill you - which means that it's just not a good 'niche' item. It blatantly does the opposite of what it appears to be for.
That doesn't answer the question. There are many ways by which you could buff the item and make it what it was intended to be. For example, it could shred resistances, or ignore a certain percentage, or amount, of resistances. The proc could be changed to physical damage if needed. Buffing numbers and lowering the price is not the only thing you can do about this, and you surely know that considering the Black Cleaver rework that makes it into a whole other item.


Are snowball items being removed? At the very least Leviathan doesn't work, SotD is almost a smurf-only item, and Mejai's Soulstealer, while arguably viable in certain solo queue games, probably causes more harm than good considering it allows someone in a single lane to gain a ridiculous advantage simply for having a ****ty opponent (relatively).


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

CooLTanG

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Master Recruiter

11-10-2012

I have to say MBR was not just for % hp dmg, it was also to be able to do magic damage, not just physical because look at those tank teams that build armor:

frozen heart, omen, sunfire, thornmail

how do u beat something like that, well Magic Damage + more attack speed I guess.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Queso Queen

Senior Member

11-10-2012

Dear Xypherous,

I have learned only a few things in this whole posting.

1. You have no wife, what about a girlfriend? Someone has to bake the brownies!
2.Phantom Dancer now ignores unit collision (Passive? or an Active Passive? I see MF becoming a very very aggressive person with this. Janna's everywhere oh god...)
3. I am very sad to hear MBZ is being removed, I loved building IE Malady MBZ on kog, I am happy to hear something like it is coming out though. Will it complement builds that want to still go ap?
4. Are we getting any type of new shoes this season? Or are current shoes being changed in any way? A small aura type shoe would be nice, like a way scaled down version of Aegis.

I have a question about Elise and MBZ...would her mini spiders have the passive of MBZ when they attack? (probably not, but I was playing around on Elise top lane today doing random builds and moved to a build with sorc shoes, malady, wits end -freaking teemos- and whatever the ap/mr/lower enemy mr aura thingie is when a que mate asked me that question. Told him probably not, it would be op, but since I wont get a chance to play for awhile I would like to know xD...mini spiders with on hit attacks oh dear...)

:3 want to come over for dinner?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Xypherous

Systems Designer

11-10-2012
38 of 56 Riot Posts

Quote:
That doesn't answer the question. There are many ways by which you could buff the item and make it what it was intended to be. For example, it could shred resistances, or ignore a certain percentage, or amount, of resistances. The proc could be changed to physical damage if needed. Buffing numbers and lowering the price is not the only thing you can do about this, and you surely know that considering the Black Cleaver rework that makes it into a whole other item.
Well, the Black Cleaver rework pretty much removes the current Black Cleaver from the game - it just keeps the name because it accomplishes something similar.

So doing what you'd suggest pretty much removes the current MBR from the game... which is.. basically the same result.

I could rename Blade of the Ruined King 'Madred's Bloodrazor' on Summoner's Rift if you'd like.

Quote:
frozen heart, omen, sunfire, thornmail

how do u beat something like that, well Magic Damage + more attack speed I guess.
Ghostblade + Last Whisper and ask someone on your team to get Black Cleaver. GO GO ARMOR SHRED!


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Lostshard

Senior Member

11-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by soulsong22 View Post
Dear Xypherous,

I have learned only a few things in this whole posting.

1. You have no wife, what about a girlfriend? Someone has to bake the brownies!
2.Phantom Dancer now ignores unit collision (Passive? or an Active Passive? I see MF becoming a very very aggressive person with this. Janna's everywhere oh god...)
3. I am very sad to hear MBZ is being removed, I loved building IE Malady MBZ on kog, I am happy to hear something like it is coming out though. Will it complement builds that want to still go ap?
4. Are we getting any type of new shoes this season? Or are current shoes being changed in any way? A small aura type shoe would be nice, like a way scaled down version of Aegis.

I have a question about Elise and MBZ...would her mini spiders have the passive of MBZ when they attack? (probably not, but I was playing around on Elise top lane today doing random builds and moved to a build with sorc shoes, malady, wits end -freaking teemos- and whatever the ap/mr/lower enemy mr aura thingie is when a que mate asked me that question. Told him probably not, it would be op, but since I wont get a chance to play for awhile I would like to know xD...mini spiders with on hit attacks oh dear...)

:3 want to come over for dinner?

to answer number 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Yeah, Phantom Dancer has had its' statistics extensively readjusted. It lost a *lot* of movement speed and a little bit of attack speed. It's also slightly cheaper and thus less slot-efficient.

It's been known for a while that Phantom Dancer was just too good but nerfing it would've caused a drastic effect on AD carry mobility / balance for a while. We've shifted some statistics around into other items that AD carries can easily fit into their builds and now PD doesn't have to be the king of both AS, Crit and MS.

On the plus side, it now has Ignore Unit Collision on it though. How useful that passive is, I'm not sure - but it is something that people have been asking for quite a while on their carries.
Does not say active so


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

rekenner

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

11-10-2012

Xyph, every time you post your logic on changes or your thoughts on champs, I love reading it. The couple of times we've actually talked about things via these forums has been enlightening. These item update topics have been great. Keep on keeping on.

Also, hell yeah, changes to Locket and Emblem! I called out how... bad and overcosted the stats on Emblem / Locket were when it came out. Glad to see it's going to get tweaked.

Also: re PD changes: Poor Jarvan. ;_;


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Amariithynar

Senior Member

11-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
If Ghostblade was good, roughly half of the champions on that list would have a GP/5 option - minus Shen/Riven/Shyvana/Zed who have absolutely no need of it.

Let's just make Ghostblade good and then worry about the 4 outliers - none of whom are particularly weak at the moment (and barring Shen, none of whom actually want Heart of Gold to begin with.)
Actually, HoG is a great item to build when you need HP and GP/10, especially on things like supports. Taking it out takes out the survival GP/10 item- unless it gets replaced, that actually hurts, quite a bit.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Euclide

Junior Member

11-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Well, the Black Cleaver rework pretty much removes the current Black Cleaver from the game.

So doing what you'd suggest pretty much removes the current MBR from the game... which is.. basically the same result.
The Black Cleaver still shreds armour, so what is filling MBR's role? The Blade of the Ruined King?

E: your edit answered that


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Fairness

Senior Member

11-10-2012

Any news on Avarice Blade?

Besides the gold generation, it's pretty useless...


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Lostshard

Senior Member

11-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fairness View Post
Any news on Avarice Blade?

Besides the gold generation, it's pretty useless...
They said they buffed the 3 remaining GP items... but im not quite sure they are ready to leak the information yet.