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Cup0fTea

Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVoidDream View Post
I'm sure Xypherous is extremely busy, but I'm seeing more and more people commenting on the same issue I talked about with Sightstone. I'm literally refreshing the page every minute to see if there will be a response. It's been the only thing I've had even the slightest issue with. I wouldn't even call it an issue, but yeah ... my curiosity to see his comments on this is killing me.
Ill tell you the way I would counter your 2 wards or 3 wards.

If I saw that you bought a Sightstone, then I would know that my jungler has no paths to gank without being seen. My solution would be to buy a single Pink Ward and place it on tri-bush for example. My jungler would see the Pink Ward and use this path to gank succesfuly.

Sorry for my english.


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Skernan

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Ionic Spark

Ionic Spark was a niche item made odd by the fact that much better options exist and it seems to fill an odd triple-niche: Survivability, On-hit, Wave clear. Who is this item supposed to be good on? It requires a very specific sub-set of characters (Tanky characters with zero wave clear that scales off attack speed) in order to be good - at which point it really starts to conflict with Wit's End for the same case.
Characters like Vayne that have % health damage benefited from two of the three, AS and Health increases. I can't think of another item that offers both in one item. Vayne and Kog'Maw benefit very much from being that little bit harder to kill and having that extra AS.


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onechange

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Elixir of Agility – Removed

Right now Elixir of Agility serves a single purpose in the game – to make the winning hyper-carry exponentially more powerful than the losing one. This has some general negative effects: Due to the multiplicative factor of attack speed and critical strike, the raw DPS increase is always better for the winner than the loser in this case. It also strongly pigeonholes viable end-game carry builds to take advantage of critical strike, as it is the cheapest and most powerful form of DPS boost.

Alternative: None

We don’t want an item in the game whose sole purpose is to pigeonhole end-game carry builds and provide exponential damage increase to a single class. While there should be purchasable buffs that help close out the game, a 250 Gold item that typically only benefits a single player on the winning team seemed a bit superfluous.

___________

I'm fine with removing Elixer of Agility, but your reasoning is quite silly. Quite silly indeed. No ad carry was building crit/aspd because of the elixer...they build that because of PD/IE. Not only this, but having a consumable in the game in no way is going to pigeonhole anybody. It doesn't take an item slot, it doesn't require a huge gold investment. It is simply icing on the cake.

I am still little confused as to why you are STILL removing so many items from the game...It seems very counterproductive both for you and for players to have to relearn new names and pictures for items instead of you simply modernizing these items to fit into whatever you guys have in your brains for season 3.


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Tryphikik

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Luckily, in lane, there are 3 main gank paths.
It's really disheartening to see a developer thinking like this. Sightstone is broken. There is literally no way to predict where they'll place the wards as a jungler. Even still they could place 2 wards and have effective coverage if they just push up enough to prevent proper lane ganking. Sight stone is going to be ridiculously broken and cost effective after 2 backs for any role. Not to mention if your jungler, support, and your top laner get it... Suddenly there are 3 wards on each side of the river and nothing is gankable unless you're nocturne or something similar... This seems so incredibly retardedly broken.

It really seems pretty obvious to me this combined with the jungle changes is just gonna make farm junglers who are really safe with an early oracles op. I'm so discouraged after seeing the reveals you guys are putting out... I sure hope the combined finished product is better than these slight reveals... :\


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ploki122

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Hume View Post
Xypherous, can you talk more about why (game health wise) it's good for ADC to have access to more lifesteal / movespeed / CC? GIving them the ability to cast Malphite Q w/ 50% spellvamp & AD scaling scares me a lot; I feel that as anyone without a gap closer, I wouldn't be able catch an out of position ADC if they can generate a 100pt+ms delta between us.

BotRK being viable on ADC seems like it combines the most abusive parts of BT and PD, plus a slow.
Well... my guess is that they'Re fixing PD to not be as viable for every single possible builds (aka remove MS). So you would actually be even harder to catch than with PD, but 5s per minutes


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Skernan

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cup0fTea View Post
Ill tell you the way I would counter your 2 wards or 3 wards.

If I saw that you bought a Sightstone, then I would know that my jungler has no paths to gank without being seen. My solution would be to buy a single Pink Ward and place it on tri-bush for example. My jungler would see the Pink Ward and use this path to gank succesfuly.

Sorry for my english.
Your english is better than a lot of players I've met, sadly.


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Xyltin

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Just going to leave this here.. sneakily.. :3

Sightstone (650 Gold)
+125 Health
Unique Passive - Refresh (Ward) : Starts with 4 charges and refills each time you stop by your shop.
Unique Active - Ghost Ward: Consumes a charge to place an invisible ward that reveals the surrounding area for 3 minutes. You may have a maximum of 2 wards from this item at once.

Upgrades to...

*is dragged away by internal Riot teams*
Don't you think this is a bit strong?
180 HP for 475g currently. Now lets say you are buffing HP to be 200 for 400g (OP). That means you are still stats worth 250g.
-> Now 400 G for wards. You can place 2 without any delay, what means you don't need to buy 2 wards, what safes you 150g.
=> the item itself is already 400g worth. And then it produces 50g every min for wards (g/10 produce 30g per min).
So after 5 min you got your gold back. And then you can also upgrade it (250g you spend too much - heart of gold like - that you get back after some minutes cause you get 2 free wards every 3 min to place).

You should nearly always have 4 wards on the map, so 2 people will get this item (support and jungler).


I think it is ok that you get 4 wards and that it can be upgraded. But i think the HP should get reduced (to 100) and the costs increased to 700g. Or make these wards 2 min wards (and 3 min with the upgraded version?)
I don't know what HP and wards will be worth after the item changes, but even when you buff HP by a huge amount, this item is a must have and that for more than one champ.

I don't think this item should be bad. But it would currently produce nearly 2 times the amount of gold you get from a g/10 item and you pay nearly the same amount of extra gold for that g/10 stat (you spend 250g for gaining 50g per min while you spend nearly the same amount - 220-230 on Kage's - to get 30g per min). Only Philo stone is more effective (but gives still only regen early, what gives no direct fighting power).


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Jake Compton

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
On MBR - If you were getting it hoping to counter tanky bruisers - you were doing it wrong. Almost every item combination involving PD / BT / IE would let you deal more damage to high health bruisers.
Why is that? Mostly because Carries aren't expected to have a linear damage curve whereas MBR is a linear effect. Secondly, the primary statistic for determining whether you were tanky or not was resistances not health. The difference between a carry's health and a tanky bruiser's health ranges less than 50% porportionally a lot of the time - thus attacking % health doesn't really help out all that much.
- From Xyph
So saying that buying it was a bad idea.... then what about buying Blade of the ruined king. If this thing does even less damage then madreds, then when the **** do you buy it. (Asterisks are craap with one "a"..Really?)

Also, Ionic isnt a bad item. You say it is niche because it is onhit/Tanky/Wave clear.... But wits end it Onhit/Tanky/SIngle target DPS. Witz end is only bought more because its so darn cost efficient.

It sounded like you taken out a build path (ionic spark) because your own opinion that it only works well on shen/Gangplank. But no offense of course


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Cruentum

Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Ionic Spark

Ionic Spark was a niche item made odd by the fact that much better options exist and it seems to fill an odd triple-niche: Survivability, On-hit, Wave clear. Who is this item supposed to be good on? It requires a very specific sub-set of characters (Tanky characters with zero wave clear that scales off attack speed) in order to be good - at which point it really starts to conflict with Wit's End for the same case.

Ionic Spark turns out to be a trap for most characters if you ever picked it up. It requires you to be ahead to be effective as the effect is highly conditional (every 4 hits.) It requires you to pick it up early as there's no scaling effect on the item (fixed magic damage). It requires you to be a specific sub-set of characters in order to be good in the first place.

A niche item with a huge set of conditionals, both champion-specific *and* context specific is an item that will never sit in a good place for very long as the thing that'll make it viable is most likely an abuse case that'll have to be nerfed in the future which makes all the other problems worse.
I do not think this is completely true. And I would also like to say especially Irelia also heavily benefits from Ionic Spark. As you probably saw at MLG Dallas where many players got IS but if you were to look at Wickd's build he was building both Ionic Spark and Wit's End along with TF iirc. This gave him more Magic Damage then Physical Damage along with something like 1.9 attack speed for True Damage (if you were playing Irelia for instance). This is a perfectly valid build for Irelia. I've also seen some Skarner's in solo queue do this IS-WE combo.


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Dl2agon

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cup0fTea View Post
Ill tell you the way I would counter your 2 wards or 3 wards.

If I saw that you bought a Sightstone, then I would know that my jungler has no paths to gank without being seen. My solution would be to buy a single Pink Ward and place it on tri-bush for example. My jungler would see the Pink Ward and use this path to gank succesfuly.

Sorry for my english.
How is he going to walk into the tri bush with out being spotted by the wards in the river? gonna buy 2 pink wards right one fore the dragon and one for tribush? or are you expecting there mid is stupid enough no to have the other jungle entrance warded