Item Preview Dust Sweeping

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HeyLPG

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Manaless supports aren't something I'm sure is a good idea to support. There's a weird flow to manaless supports where if they *can* support effectively - then the only option left is to burst because sustaining / harassing are effectively free for them.

You can't burn down the mana bar of something that has no mana, essentially. It's a very dangerous concept in general.
Why aren't you the lead designer of everything?


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Gahlo

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Here's the core difference - Sightstone doesn't net you advantage if you are passive. Having wards provides safety - but Heart of Gold actually nets you advantage by passive play due to your passive GP/10 will override the value of active play.

You're not going to win the lane any harder by being safe - whereas HoG causes you to win the lane harder by being hard to burst.



Well, to be fair, resource-less champions get a huge advantage in the fact that.. they're resourceless to begin with. Your early itemization starts can be far more aggressive due to this fact.
First, I wanted to say that I love what I'm seeing so far from the item changes. You are my favorite Rioter, you had me at "Riven." I understand not wanting to let ALL the cats out of the bag at once for items, only suggest when you DO release stuff that it is released with context of its contemporaries. For instance maybe the changes to Avarice Blade will give non AP manaless champions more incentive to build it to ease the vacuum left by HoG.

Just a bit of constructive criticism to help avoid forum whiplash as we all wait on the edge of our seats for the rest! Kinda miffed that I payed for the whole seat now...


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ddaimyo

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siigari View Post
Xypherous I appreciate the thought you put into this, but by removing items you're just removing options in a seeming attempt to close champions to one build.

I do not appreciate that. The new items are neat and stuff but you're removing items in "families" and that seems unfair.


Case in point. You are expressing your opinion, and holding us to it.
How is it his opinion that mana-less supports have a powerful advantage over mana supports, and making them stronger invalidates a large number of champions? Sounds like a fact to me, not an opinion.


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KevinDelMarr

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Here's the core difference - Sightstone doesn't net you advantage if you are passive. Having wards provides safety - but Heart of Gold actually nets you advantage by passive play due to your passive GP/10 will override the value of active play.

You're not going to win the lane any harder by being safe - whereas HoG causes you to win the lane harder by being hard to burst.



Well, to be fair, resource-less champions get a huge advantage in the fact that.. they're resourceless to begin with. Your early itemization starts can be far more aggressive due to this fact.
I could actually see Top laners getting this item, for when an enemy jungler keeps walking by with Oracles. Now with Jungle more focused on trade-offs between farming and ganking, when a Champion can set down several wards over time, having to go back up to lane again and again would be costly for them. When you can pay ~475 for health (in a way, not close, but i digress) then 175 for limitless wards, it could make top lane much safer. Having ward coverage so you can be aware of more ganks can lead to being more aggressive, since if you can ward river then one of the brushes you have full top lane control by not having fear of external pressure


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snead

Senior Member

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Arby099

Senior Member

11-09-2012

What's happening to Randuin's build path without HoG in the game?


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Xypherous

Systems Designer

11-09-2012
6 of 56 Riot Posts

Quote:
Xypherous I appreciate the thought you put into this, but by removing items you're just removing options in a seeming attempt to close champions to one build.

Case in point. You are expressing your opinion, and holding us to it.
In general, the removals have focused on ones that warp gameplay around itself to the point where no other items can exist or ones that prevents the creation of items that would encourage flexibility in builds.

For example - There is no item that can compete with Heart of Gold. It fits into any build that doesn't run raw damage and is never a bad idea. There is no reason for any other tier 1 item to exist when Heart of Gold does.

In the case of FoN - You can't create many additional MS% or MR options when FoN exists - because the stacked potential would excessively strong. MR and MS% destroy mages when they're readily available as a mage's main safety is range and burst.

Any additional MR/MS% options added to the game would have to also necessitate nerfing FoN as well the items would've had to be balanced to the stacked case - rather than the individual case.


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Patroks

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Senior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by orc72 View Post
Not really. The fact that it does damage based on there current health, means it does less damage the lower health they get. This also means it heals you for less while they still deal the same amount of damage.
The way it currently is, blade of the ruined king makes it so you can never win. Just imagine someone with blood thirster fighting someone with botrk. The blood thirster will win out in every situation due to the fact that the survivability blood thirster provides does not go down whenever the person there attacking gets low health.
....Because its not meant to be a first or second item? There's not reason to build it for dueling, or for lane phase, the point of it is to melt tanks, to the point where they can be killed.


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AidanNoot

Senior Member

11-09-2012

omg i am going to miss HoG and Ionic Spark. I can understand the removal of HoG, but I loved Ionic spark especially because it was a very fun and useful item!

I have been building Ionic Spark on several champions, some on-hit champions and some jungle champions, for that extra burst and clearing capabilities.

Please reconsider keeping Ionic Spark!


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Zerglinator

Senior Member

11-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Manaless supports aren't something I'm sure is a good idea to support. There's a weird flow to manaless supports where if they *can* support effectively - then the only option left is to burst because sustaining / harassing are effectively free for them.

You can't burn down the mana bar of something that has no mana, essentially. It's a very dangerous concept in general.
But...but...but...

Wickwar! NOT WICKWAR!