[Featured Discussion] Flat health heal on hit item. why not?

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Critkeeper

Senior Member

11-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoBeNirvana View Post
There was a period in the game where Ranged carries were nerfed into the ground. It did not bring melee carries into viability. It made the game all tanky dps all the time in all the lanes.
What you need in order for melee carries to succeed is not a nerf on anyone, but a change in mechanics. Ranged carries can kite through positional control, melee carries cannot. It would be interesting if melee carries could kite through rotational control.


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fCKzAr

Senior Member

11-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by axesandspears View Post
It is hard to call CDR, Mana, and Armor an overpowered combination.

The only thing about Frozen Heart that has stood out as a problem was the cdr back when it was 25%, and Frozen Heart + Randuin's Omen pushed any bruiser or tank the cdr cap. That issue was fixed.

Frozen Heart reduces an already very powerful source of damage. By my calculations, a Malphite using Ground Slam, Randuin's Omen, and Frozen Heart brings a fully-built carry's dps down to roughly 200 from 800 damage per second. Most mages and bruisers can be assumed to have between 200-300 dps unhindered. These numbers are pre-mitigation, armor will of course reduce those numbers further.
But then most mages are AOE, so their DPS is essentially much higher. ADs are solely single target and thus their DPS reduction is linear with AS reduction. Also AS reduction works on max AS, while AS increase works on base AS.


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Grigorian Tutor

Senior Member

11-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Quite honestly, I have no idea. There's a lot of moving parts here on changes.

2. Regeneration/Siege

This we liked, but the fact that it was tied to a movement speed item and a magic resist item was a little weird. It didn't quite seem to click, so tanks that had to itemize regeneration kind of picked up a bunch of stats randomly.

Also, the tri-fecta of Warmogs / Spirit Visage / FoN was actually incredibly hard to get a good sense of balance. Mostly because it turns "on" super-late but mostly because they build on each other a little too much. While we like the build of 'I am unstoppable brick wall of regeneration' - we think that right now it's both really hard to get *and* overpowered when finished and we'd really like to see it be a more viable build that's more in line when it does happen so people feel like they aren't taking long-gambits but more of a choice on how to itemize.

3. Movement Speed

The whole paradigm of X class gets a MS item Y is actually starting to show where the faults are. In order to specialize for movement speed, you have to build into a very specific item - which naturally creates this weird power gap where a class that is perfectly catered by item Y gets MS while every other class pays a gold tax of unwanted stats to get the same mobility. This naturally leads to people wanting more MS/X items for a specific class - which seems to suggest that maybe what people actually want is more ubiquitous movement options that don't consume slots rather than a continuous stream of one-off items with MS% randomly on it.

For example, Lich Bane is the AP item with movement speed on it. That kind of screws every AP caster who doesn't want Lich Bane or can't use it well. This leads to this weird case where randomly, some class of characters get faster just because they can use Lich Bane well. While it's nice to have a few items like this - it's probably a sign as a whole that people want to be able to somehow spend more gold to get mobility rather than they want catered items that have MS on the item.
Cool, MS doesnt really make sense on said brick wall build. Mundo can go where he plz without it. Two MR items with passive MS doesnt really make sense either since there are only like 5 in the game. Lichbane rework over duo a well. LB into an item for AP jungler would be nice. Cloth+KLP+Sheen = LB 2.0, 60AP 300Mana 26Arm 0MS for a leaner proc item.

Quote:
So tanks are supposed to be slow as fk? Mages and ad carries are supposed to just **** on anyone late game?
For fk sake ironstylus, why would you be so stubborn and remove one of at least a bit special useful items from the league?

The items are already boring and just three, four items are used for every single champion every single game and removing a great counter play item for double ap comps seems very silly and I'm not proud of you.
For you and the other whiners who have no idea where this bonus is being moved to or what the whole of item changes will mean...

SHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..................


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TealNinje

Senior Member

11-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoBeNirvana View Post
There was a period in the game where Ranged carries were nerfed into the ground. It did not bring melee carries into viability. It made the game all tanky dps all the time in all the lanes.
That was the period of time where the balance was healthiest and the game most amusing to me. Every champion I can think of saw playtime due to combinations that you could run and freedom of placement.

I played super squishy characters then, and actually counter-PLAYED the enemy rather than counter-PICKED the enemy.


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FlutterShen

Senior Member

11-06-2012

Well wait a second. Let's think this through. What would be the benefit of Life on Hit if it's just a worse lifesteal? My suggestion is: It doesn't count as a form of healing or regeneration. It would act as a soft shield against ignite, lessening its disruption(as well as other heal reduction abilities) against the AD carry but keeping it in line with other champs.

Also, while we're on this train of thoughts. Add an item with an activate effect

"Your abilities now grant you for X amount of health per target hit for 10 seconds."

The big difference between this and spellvamp would be that it would be unaffected by the 1/3 AOE policy. Hell, you could make this a potion. I've seen complaints that those with lifesteal are able to regen their health in a matter of seconds but casters requires much longer in the battlefield to regen health (or give up your lane presence to B)


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ecstaSTEVE

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Member

11-06-2012

oh god the first xypherous post in a while. we're not worthy, we're not worthy. looking forward to life on hit, as long as it's not as necessary as diablo makes it.


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thehoevan

Member

11-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by NotBuzzJack View Post
If Frozen Heart is so OP why did you guys never nerf it?
Because in my own opinion some AD carries are OP without it, my friend. (cough Vayne cough)


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3rdStorm

Senior Member

11-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlutterShen View Post
Well wait a second. Let's think this through. What would be the benefit of Life on Hit if it's just a worse lifesteal? ....
It would be cost effective but lack late game scaling unless you build lots of AS. its main contribution to the game would be build diversity.


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Noxious Seraph

Senior Member

11-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xypherous View Post
Hm. This probably isn't a good time to mention that I removed FoN and scattered its various passives and pieces to the wind onto other items.

On the plus side though, Tanks now get to build Warmog's and not feel silly.

Although you'll still be able to build every piece of FoN used to offer. It just won't be rolled up into the particular stat combination. This counts against my spoiler count for the day. :P

*Falls to knees* Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo oooooo

Mundo will not go where he pleases, 4 warmogs boots and FoN


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Daerv Eth

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Junior Member

11-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoBeNirvana View Post
There was a period in the game where Ranged carries were nerfed into the ground. It did not bring melee carries into viability. It made the game all tanky dps all the time in all the lanes.
I remember that time, all meele carrys warmog/atmas, all ranged frozen mallet/madred's bloodrazor; Fun time fun time