thornmail, and why is really sucks

First Riot Post
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George W Nome

Game Designer

11-06-2012
4 of 4 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by BayconLife View Post
Any chance of a new item with similar style? Maybe one with an active that for X seconds you reflect a percent of damage soaked (by AR, MR, or damage reduction skills). It could have a distinct animation for when it is active so you know to switch to a different target, it would still have the problem that some of the scaling depends on your opponent's strength though...just throwing ideas out there.
I actually have no issue with this. It adds clear counterplay, an active skill/timing-based component, and has high visibility. But to answer you question, no; there is no plan (for TT at least) to include this item, as I don't think it's necessary.


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She

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Senior Member

11-06-2012

thornmail? the community ACTUALLY thinks that thornmail is op? wow no wonder everyone thinks 3v3 is a joke gametype. holy **** im so embarrassed


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Pigoil

Senior Member

11-06-2012

thornmail is a very situational item and it always will be


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NotBuzzJack

Senior Member

11-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by BayconLife View Post
Any chance of a new item with similar style? Maybe one with an active that for X seconds you reflect a percent of damage soaked (by AR, MR, or damage reduction skills). It could have a distinct animation for when it is active so you know to switch to a different target, it would still have the problem that some of the scaling depends on your opponent's strength though...just throwing ideas out there.
Sounds like Blademail from Dota. Which honestly, is a really cool item that lol needs.


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IS11d6327cb35cafc124891

Senior Member

11-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by She View Post
thornmail?????????????? the community ACTUALLY thinks that thornmail is op?????????????????? WOW no wonder everyone thinks 3v3 is a joke gametype, because the majority of people playing it are actually COMPLAINING about thornmail................................... WOWWWWWWWWW holy **** im so embarrassed
thornmail is very strong and punish people that can't adapt and have the same itembuild everygame (ie, phantom dancer, bt etc), but it's hard countered by madred and onhit build. since there is no madred in tt, it's hard to counter thornmail. in SR i have totally no problem to counter thornmail even in 1vs1 scenario, i just sell some physical dps item and buy wits end+madred.

but removing/adding item to tt and dominion to try to balance the map is really idiotic.

it's a burden of knowedge. Riot now can't create new map, because it's impossible for people to remember which item is on specific map.
Also some hero are very very weak in 3vs3 or on short map, soraka or nasus really make me lol on 3vs3 map. and some are completly op because their kit is early game oriented like mundo with his 200AD steroid -.-

I think riot is doing a really bad move here for the long term, just my opinion btw.


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Jancarius

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Member

11-06-2012

I personally build a Maw, Last Whisper, and a Blade of Ruined king. The magic damage bypasses teh Thornmail and returns enough health to more than make up for it.

But glad to see Thornmail going away


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SecretStauce

Junior Member

11-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nostradamusss View Post
thornmail is very strong and punish people that can't adapt and have the same itembuild everygame (ie, phantom dancer, bt etc), but it's hard countered by madred and onhit build. since there is no madred in tt, it's hard to counter thornmail. in SR i have totally no problem to counter thornmail even in 1vs1 scenario, i just sell some physical dps item and buy wits end+madred.

but removing/adding item to tt and dominion to try to balance the map is really idiotic.

it's a burden of knowedge. Riot now can't create new map, because it's impossible for people to remember which item is on specific map.
Also some hero are very very weak in 3vs3 or on short map, soraka or nasus really make me lol on 3vs3 map. and some are completly op because their kit is early game oriented like mundo with his 200AD steroid -.-

I think riot is doing a really bad move here for the long term, just my opinion btw.
There is no madred but there is the blade of the ruined king that replaced it that does magic damage as % of health, that is cheaper than madred and has lifesteal... combine it with the mace that has spell vamp, armor, armor pen and damage and you got yourself a pretty decent counter to thoromail, and Garen or Voli. Throw a hextech gun blade in there and you can use garen like a health pot.

The active defense item is a good idea, but it can be overdone... Hextech and Blade of the Ruined King do it well, but stuff like ghostblade and sword of the divine are/were a bit meh.

And as far as separation of items and map diversity... that is a great idea. It makes the game much more diverse rather than Classic 5v5 and an imbalanced "Mini Classic" 3v3. I stopped playing LoL for a long time because it became repetitive. With the new maps it's definitely more fun.


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Hoizengerd

Senior Member

11-06-2012

now they removed Force of Nature too!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!!!!
Riot just wants to completely kill off tanks from the game, there better be some carry nerfs incoming cause they're gonna melt entire teams now (as if they didn't hit hard enough already) and sounds like Frozen Heart and Randuins are in the scope sights too


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kavinh the third

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Senior Member

11-06-2012

except there's various ad items that deal magic damage like madred's and even newer items such as that ruin blade. not to mention 2k is a pretty heavy amount of gold for a rush map.


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Aquilux

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Senior Member

11-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RiotNome View Post
Well, I guess I should add #4.

4. Allows you to counter an opponent without directly interacting with him.

So now once the enemy AD auto attacker is fed, there is now little to nothing to stop them? Lifesteal negated most thornmail return damage anyhow (and all ADC get lifesteal at some point). Just because the enemy got a little fed from your teammates, doesn't mean the enemy should straight up sweep your team without your team being able to do anything except feed them more... The attacker should realize someone has a thornmail and simply focus another enemy- that takes strategy and isn't any less mindless than buying items that only give stat ups... (aside: you can tell I think Randuin's and Frozen heart are well designed (need counters to attack speed champs somehow!)). I also agree that ADC should have to buy some defense anyway besides the indirect EHP from lifesteal to help counter thornmail since the defender(s) spent money on defense themselves... Basically, there is still room for counter, counter play which doesn't make "thornmail OP!" in the slightest, it only requires your opponent to carefully consider (oh, the headaches!) rather than just autoattacking blindly.

TL;DR: Thornmail is a legitimate strategic defense against a fed enemy who would otherwise demolish your team. Yes, you should not have fed them in the first place, but there are too many champs who can sweep with only a few kills otherwise.

Thanks for reading?