Fair enough that Darius ult is true damage

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otirruborez

Senior Member

10-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscworldDeath View Post
Except Olaf often gets more than one Reckless Swing in during his duel with someone, so it's not just the 340 that ends things.
and someone else can attack 10 times for 50 damage, that's not the point. swing is just another attack, guillotine ends your life while you're still in fighting shape.


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Redeemed In Fire

Senior Member

10-28-2012

Please summarize what's wrong with his ultimate, and how that puts Darius over the top in the context of the rest of his kit. Edit: what? All ive seen is "refresh on kill is broken" "true damage is broken" "ad ratio is broken" without even explaining how this makes his ultimate overpowered compared to other ults, never mind how this relates to his entire kit.


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Senior Member

10-28-2012

Don't you just love it when you play Soraka, and go LOL on Darius's ult with a heal right as he's about to use it?

Wait, none of you play with Soraka? Oh...

And he's really not overpowered. Sure, his ultimate is one hell of a nuke, but you literally have to be in his pull zone or tunnel vision so hard you don't see his slow self walk up to you to stack 5 points. And if he blows it and you don't die within that 0.5 second window, then his dunking skills gets benched for a little while.

Pretty much, if you're running against a Darius, the following will help you turn him into mush:

1.) Team focus (because who really does this in solo queue?)

2.) HP (because you can't have too much of it)

3.) Last Whisper/Void Staff (self-explanatory)

2 out of these 3 you probably should already have going for you, especially since you know Darius will more than likely build tanky, and if the enemy team has half a brain, they should be building defensively unless they don't have to (which means your team is getting stomped).

Darius is very easily kited, prone to CC hardcore (even if he has Merc Treads), and needs to get to you, especially if he's blown his E. I'm just saying, Durrius can be handled by anyone whose skill is worth their weight in gold (or aluminum, but hey)


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Tempestphile

Senior Member

10-29-2012

I just don't see why this thread is drifted off to

Darius has 4 skill that can do damage, and olaf has only 2 (well when you are meleeing, you wouldn't throw axe at someone's face)

But that's not the main point here. while i don't like Darius' ult, i think it's still ok with fixed true damage + ult reset, but why the AD ratio, it pushes it over the top, especially when you add in the passive bleeding.

So yea, when 2 melee champs get into a fight, one side has about 750 hp then the other because of his ult.

I really think these 2 should happen to balance him (or at least 1 of them)
1. After Darius ults, all stack of hemorrhage is consumed
2. Remove AD ratio on ult


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Xortberg

Senior Member

10-29-2012

Dude, you're making QQ threads in multiple forums about Darius. Why. He's strong, yes, but he's not OP. Chill out.


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Redeemed In Fire

Senior Member

10-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempestphile View Post
I just don't see why this thread is drifted off to

Darius has 4 skill that can do damage, and olaf has only 2 (well when you are meleeing, you wouldn't throw axe at someone's face)

But that's not the main point here. while i don't like Darius' ult, i think it's still ok with fixed true damage + ult reset, but why the AD ratio, it pushes it over the top, especially when you add in the passive bleeding.

So yea, when 2 melee champs get into a fight, one side has about 750 hp then the other because of his ult.

I really think these 2 should happen to balance him (or at least 1 of them)
1. After Darius ults, all stack of hemorrhage is consumed
2. Remove AD ratio on ult
But seriously, he kind of sucks as a duelist without his ult in it's current form. He:
* Has next to no mobility
* Is dependent on a relatively long CD pull with short range for engages
* his main dueling skill is best used before pull, and is even shorter range
* His CC is too long of a CD to stick to anyone until he's already had some time to beat on the target, which he can't do without CC

If you took off the AD ratio, he'd still be pretty good. But then there'd be no real reason to pick him over Olaf, who has free arpen, better dueling skills, inbuilt sustain, a permaslow, and as much true damage, all accessible at an earlier level.

Also, it's 3 damaging skills and 3 damaging skills (pull does no damage, Olaf ult technically does no damage, olaf W gives AD).


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Tempestphile

Senior Member

10-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by RCIX View Post
But seriously, he kind of sucks as a duelist without his ult in it's current form. He:
* Has next to no mobility
* Is dependent on a relatively long CD pull with short range for engages
* his main dueling skill is best used before pull, and is even shorter range
* His CC is too long of a CD to stick to anyone until he's already had some time to beat on the target, which he can't do without CC

If you took off the AD ratio, he'd still be pretty good. But then there'd be no real reason to pick him over Olaf, who has free arpen, better dueling skills, inbuilt sustain, a permaslow, and as much true damage, all accessible at an earlier level.

Also, it's 3 damaging skills and 3 damaging skills (pull does no damage, Olaf ult technically does no damage, olaf W gives AD).
Herrmorhage, Decimate, Crippling Strike, Noxian Gullitone

And, Apprehend gives Arm pen.

You are right in a way, but we all know if Darius gets kited or olaf gets kited (kiter good at dodging apprehend / undertow), then they are pretty much done for

What I am trying to argue is melee champions with minimal to no kiting abilitiy

Also Frozen mallet solves Darius problem, and also makes him tanky.

And you are right, if you took off the AD ratio, he is still good, but it just feels fairer.


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DiscworldDeath

Senior Member

10-29-2012

Ekis, they removed the 0.5 seconds' grace period ages ago. You have to have the ultimate deal the killing blow directly to get the refresh.

Also, when I build tank Darius, I don't get 1k damage on the ult.


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Panwar

Senior Member

10-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempestphile View Post
I just don't see why this thread is drifted off to

Darius has 4 skill that can do damage, and olaf has only 2 (well when you are meleeing, you wouldn't throw axe at someone's face)...
First of all Olaf is a serious AA'er, where as Darius is only a half-assed AA'er(which means a large percentage of Olaf's damage comes from his AA's). Also you absolutely do throw axes in melee range. You throw them directly on top of you and your opponent and can spam them because you immediately pick them up when they land.

You can not in any way shape or form try to say that Darius is more powerful than Olaf. Early game without items sure. But get some items for Olaf and he becomes an unstoppable killing machine that ranks up there with some of the best duelists in the game.


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Redeemed In Fire

Senior Member

10-29-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempestphile View Post
Also Frozen mallet solves Darius problem, and also makes him tanky.

And you are right, if you took off the AD ratio, he is still good, but it just feels fairer.
Realistically if you're going Frozen Mallet into other tank items, then you're not really using those AD ratios in the first place and you only have 2ish swings of olaf E per ult. And if you do build some AD (the superior build IMO) then you're squishier and more prone to focus/kiting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempestphile View Post
Herrmorhage, Decimate, Crippling Strike, Noxian Gullitone

And, Apprehend gives Arm pen.
Then Olaf has 4 or 5 as well, as Ragnarok gives arpen and his passive gives him AS. =]

Quote:
Originally Posted by DiscworldDeath View Post
Ekis, they removed the 0.5 seconds' grace period ages ago. You have to have the ultimate deal the killing blow directly to get the refresh.

Also, when I build tank Darius, I don't get 1k damage on the ult.
Not quiiiiiiite. If you're good at timing, you can give up the kill to an ally and still get the refresh, but the timing is super tight.