There will never be a champion of African descent in LoL.

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Chilipapa

Senior Member

10-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by chumbler View Post
If skin color doesn't matter, why do you oppose the addition of black or other minority group (for the US) champions?

Unless you meant "Skin color doesn't matter as long as it's white."
Why do you keep assuming people "oppose the addition of black or other minority group"?

I honestly don't care. However, the reason they probably won't is because "progressive" racists demand affirmative action. Bringing race into the decision taints it.


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Kraemer

Senior Member

10-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by chumbler View Post
If skin color doesn't matter, why do you oppose the addition of black or other minority group (for the US) champions?

Unless you meant "Skin color doesn't matter as long as it's white."
I don't care, I would play any champion, regardless of the skin tone pixels. I'm just wondering why it matters. Also, I want to know why it matters to you. If this game was comprised soley of dark toned champions, and I complained about lack of "white" champions, would you care? Or would you go off on a tract on "White Privilege" and tell me to deal with it,.


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Xelesta

Senior Member

10-22-2012

Morello will tell you that the cinematic is not good to have black champion, just like they canceled Omen


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Eserine

Senior Member

10-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraemer View Post
I don't care, I would play any champion, regardless of the skin tone pixels. I'm just wondering why it matters. Also, I want to know why it matters to you. If this game was comprised soley of dark toned champions, and I complained about lack of "white" champions, would you care? Or would you go off on a tract on "White Privilege" and tell me to deal with it,.
If LoL took place in feudal Japan, during the period where the Emperor demanded that all immigrants be exported and forbidden to live within the boundaries of the country, it would contextually make sense to have homogeneous ethnic representation, and all the characters would logically be portrayed as Japanese.

League of Legends (or a game with all black characters in an unbound imaginary universe) has no such contextual limitation, it incorporates all sorts of Earth references to modern, multi-racial culture, and those who claim that is obvious that "Runeterra is just to far from the sun to have UV radiation", or that "some crazy wizard secretly made all the black people disappear", have no coherent reason why such a boundary would be put into place throughout an artist's body of work if this wasn't guided by a racial or aesthetic preference favoring some ethnic groups over others, either from a racially-segregated reality that the authors grew up within and later referenced (or marketed to) in the game, or alternatively a racially-segregated imagination fed by years of racially-preferential mass-media.

This is a glaring and disgusting problem written about constantly in the forums by concerned players. It casts a bad light on the designers and the players of the game that the dreamworld we engage in unexplainedly erased all dark-skinned people from existence when the champions of physically-idealized Caucasian and Asian likeness continue to be released month after month after month FOR YEARS. It should be actively protested, just as a disconcertingly unexplained all-black universe should be.

Riot claims in advertising that they listen to what their players want and love taking creative feedback to fix design problems to get the most awesome product possible, but here is an important area where they have not delivered.


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Mhm916

Senior Member

10-22-2012

Truth is, black people are the most racist of them all. They are ALWAYS the first to point out that every race but their own race, is against them. So in short, they think every race but their own are jackasses.


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Azrethe

Senior Member

10-22-2012

I LIKE SYNDRA. Shes asian and asians are hawt.


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ThaLaughingMan

Member

10-22-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eserine View Post
The OP begins this thread with non-relevant semantic nitpicking about terminology and then progresses into pseudoscientific (or fake science) reasoning about ethnicity, and then terrible ideological justifications for the current design of the game, all the while gaining vote and post support from those who do not want further racial representation within the gameworld. He is not a "true intellectual" in any sense of the word, and I will now explain why:


When players ask for a "African champion" what they mean (clearly) is a champion that has similarity in feature to humans of African heritage. Claiming that there is no "Africa" is extremely short-sighted and bizarre. The lore mentions that there once were a number of continents before the two Rune Wars took place and left Valoran and some islands as the smoking craters of a former planet. Any number of zones could have had significant UV exposure, which is the cause of the evolutionary adaptation of melanin, NOT climate or temperature. Anyone in Demacia or Noxus or any of the other city states could be a descendent of these people who may have migrated en masse to Valoran after the cataclysms, or indeed lived there in a continent zone this entire time parallel to the citizens of European and Asian similarity, since there are many areas on the map that have not been described or shown to players in any detail. Furthermore three times already new races and people have been introduced out of nowhere. There was no Atlantis, and then suddenly: Ziggs. There were no underground crystal scorpions and then out of nowhere: Skarner, there was no lost magical Caucasian desert city and then, behold! Zilean.

Beyond simply requesting darker-skinned champions for "affirmative action" purposes, players frequently cite specific champions of race that they would like included as reference in the game (Blade, John Henry, Afro Samurai etc. etc.) just as Lady Gaga was incorporated into Diana's design and Tidehunter and Bioshock were referenced with Nautilus. Secondly the incorporation of champions of different ethnicities better supports the premise of mythological, ultimate, panglobal war (Medusa, Leonidas, the Monkey King, Anubis, etc.), as well as the historical time-period of medieval Europe where there were indeed black people (http://www.playahata.com/pages/morph...ackknight.html), thirdly it might encourage more new players to enter the gameworld who are currently not interested in the game because it looks as though Riot is building a whites-only fantasy world just as Tolkien did and Blizzard did in making Warcraft (where the dimwitted, primitive, and savage orcs with broad noses and tribal jewellery are the closest present approximation), as well as cut down on the omni-prevalent racism demonstrated by players emboldened by the idea that Riot doesn't like U.S. minority groups any more than they do given the current hero roster.

When people claim that "true non-racists don't see skin color" they are misrepresenting the position of individuals who are non-racist. The fully-completed thought might be written as "In a world where there are multiple ethnicities, true non-racists do not treat people of any ethnicity differently then they do people of their own ethnicity". Why is this an important distinction? Many people live in cities, towns, or social spheres where there are not multiple ethnicities, the live in a world of racial purity where they never need interact with people who do not look like them. Likewise Runeterra was shaped not to have champions of similarity to Native American, Hispanic, or African people, so "not seeing" this conspicuous omission (or the omission in many books, games, and movies http://www.cracked.com/article_19549...ery-movie.html) does not mean that you are some sort of wise and enlightened sage of progressive morality.

Are racial groups just to easily offended to include such characters in the game universe? Bone-in-the-nose, superstitious, uneducated savage witchdoctors who have no social skills or ability to speak properly are certainly angrily looked upon when they are constantly incorporated as the only representation of African culture. Yet in arguing that players of race are too "crybaby" to handle any character incorporated with similar physical features implemented into a cohesive and interesting portrayal (especially beyond a single token character) is an offensive depiction of the black gaming community (or those of any other race). Black players are just as capable of being loyal to Riot and defending them from criticism if they make new champions as Caucasian players are.
Well said good summoner. Much respect.

Just because you don't understand why something matters to someone that may differ from you (race, creed, social status, male/female, etc...), such as this topic, doesn't mean they do not have a legitimate reason to feel the way they do. A lack of even trying to understand where they're coming from and why it affects as it does in this day and age is merely willful ignorance. If only the majority of people in this world could really open their minds enough to look at the many aspects of life form someone else's perspective.. If only.. Until that time, there's no hope for the human race.

I would LOVE to see what Morello's, IronStylus', or any of the other artist's stance is on this issue. I doubt that will happen though.


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Cryptid V

Senior Member

10-23-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eserine View Post
The OP begins this thread with non-relevant semantic nitpicking about terminology and then progresses into pseudoscientific (or fake science) reasoning about ethnicity, and then terrible ideological justifications for the current design of the game, all the while gaining vote and post support from those who do not want further racial representation within the gameworld. He is not a "true intellectual" in any sense of the word, and I will now explain why:


When players ask for a "African champion" what they mean (clearly) is a champion that has similarity in feature to humans of African heritage. Claiming that there is no "Africa" is extremely short-sighted and bizarre. The lore mentions that there once were a number of continents before the two Rune Wars took place and left Valoran and some islands as the smoking craters of a former planet. Any number of zones could have had significant UV exposure, which is the cause of the evolutionary adaptation of melanin, NOT climate or temperature. Anyone in Demacia or Noxus or any of the other city states could be a descendent of these people who may have migrated en masse to Valoran after the cataclysms, or indeed lived there in a continent zone this entire time parallel to the citizens of European and Asian similarity, since there are many areas on the map that have not been described or shown to players in any detail. Furthermore three times already new races and people have been introduced out of nowhere. There was no Atlantis, and then suddenly: Ziggs. There were no underground crystal scorpions and then out of nowhere: Skarner, there was no lost magical Caucasian desert city and then, behold! Zilean.

Beyond simply requesting darker-skinned champions for "affirmative action" purposes, players frequently cite specific champions of race that they would like included as reference in the game (Blade, John Henry, Afro Samurai etc. etc.) just as Lady Gaga was incorporated into Diana's design and Tidehunter and Bioshock were referenced with Nautilus. Secondly the incorporation of champions of different ethnicities better supports the premise of mythological, ultimate, panglobal war (Medusa, Leonidas, the Monkey King, Anubis, etc.), as well as the historical time-period of medieval Europe where there were indeed black people (http://www.playahata.com/pages/morph...ackknight.html), thirdly it might encourage more new players to enter the gameworld who are currently not interested in the game because it looks as though Riot is building a whites-only fantasy world just as Tolkien did and Blizzard did in making Warcraft (where the dimwitted, primitive, and savage orcs with broad noses and tribal jewellery are the closest present approximation), as well as cut down on the omni-prevalent racism demonstrated by players emboldened by the idea that Riot doesn't like U.S. minority groups any more than they do given the current hero roster.

When people claim that "true non-racists don't see skin color" they are misrepresenting the position of individuals who are non-racist. The fully-completed thought might be written as "In a world where there are multiple ethnicities, true non-racists do not treat people of any ethnicity differently then they do people of their own ethnicity". Why is this an important distinction? Many people live in cities, towns, or social spheres where there are not multiple ethnicities, the live in a world of racial purity where they never need interact with people who do not look like them. Likewise Runeterra was shaped not to have champions of similarity to Native American, Hispanic, or African people, so "not seeing" this conspicuous omission (or the omission in many books, games, and movies http://www.cracked.com/article_19549...ery-movie.html) does not mean that you are some sort of wise and enlightened sage of progressive morality.

Are racial groups just to easily offended to include such characters in the game universe? Bone-in-the-nose, superstitious, uneducated savage witchdoctors who have no social skills or ability to speak properly are certainly angrily looked upon when they are constantly incorporated as the only representation of African culture. Yet in arguing that players of race are too "crybaby" to handle any character incorporated with similar physical features implemented into a cohesive and interesting portrayal (especially beyond a single token character) is an offensive depiction of the black gaming community (or those of any other race). Black players are just as capable of being loyal to Riot and defending them from criticism if they make new champions as Caucasian players are.
I believe the general census is that no one cares if they make black champions, the problem is claiming that riot is racist for not having any already. At least thats my problem.


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Eserine

Senior Member

10-28-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryptid V View Post
I believe the general census is that no one cares if they make black champions, the problem is claiming that riot is racist for not having any already. At least thats my problem.

I disagree that apathy is the general consensus of LoL players on this subject, or the set of prospective LoL players who might one day play the game. There are actually a lot of people who care very deeply about further racial representation being added to the present set of champions. In the past Morello and Eduardo Gonzales (art concepts) have both made it clear that they do not, and intend to use their influence to prevent such things from happening because to paraphrase: "Humans with darker skin-tones don't need to be part of a game where there are dragons and yeti and fairies".

Is this a racist viewpoint to hold? Who are Morello and the art team to set such thematic limitations, and for what purpose? Why don't characters of Black, Latino, or Native American likeness etc. belong in a game about legendary mythological warriors when a significant portion of the playerbase belongs to these demographic groups and, together with other players, regularly ask on the forms for better champion-creation patterns?

I and many other players feel that the underlying reason is that Morello and most of the design team (and the rest of Riot) grew up in love with fantasy stories, fantasy games, and fantasy movies that were heavily artistically inspired by works made long ago which, beyond containing fantastical realms of breathtaking magic and monsters, also intrinsically contained thinly-veiled ideas of racial discrimination and segregation that, as we develop as a global society past apartheid and the beginning of the Civil Rights movement, no longer fit with the way the educated public sees the world (or creates worlds of fantasy). Modern fans of "LOTR", "MTG", or "The Wizard of Oz" series often deliberately choose not to contemplate the implications of "black, evil monsters" fighting against the "pure, light-skinned, forces of good"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eserine View Post

LOTR is not a work of racial exclusionism, black and brown people were overtly portrayed as been evil, corrupt, ugly, cruel, primitive, and in league with supreme evil- just as mentioned before on page nine that Tolkien compared dwarves to Jews in an interview where he had previously characterized Dwarves and wandering, displaced immigrants addicted to hoarding wealth.

http://faustusnotes.wordpress.com/20...cial-theories/
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Racis...kien%27s_Works
http://inthearmchair.wordpress.com/2...m-and-tolkien/
http://essays-articles.blogspot.com/...racist-or.html
http://requireshate.wordpress.com/20...-deal-with-it/
... but in carrying on the legacy of such poisoned works it ends up making more people like this:

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2610906

and indeed, as LoL has grown more popular as a source of mass-media, scientific studies by Stanford University and associate colleges on the attitudes of U.S. citizens toward ethnic groups has shown a demonstrable shift toward negative, "non-heroic" characterizations of individuals with darker skin-tones:

Quote:
Racial prejudice has increased slightly since 2008 whether those feelings were measured using questions that explicitly asked respondents about racist attitudes, or through an experimental test that measured implicit views toward race without asking questions about that topic directly.

In all, 51 percent of Americans now express explicit anti-black attitudes, compared with 48 percent in a similar 2008 survey. When measured by an implicit racial attitudes test, the number of Americans with anti-black sentiments jumped to 56 percent, up from 49 percent during the last presidential election. In both tests, the share of Americans expressing pro-black attitudes fell.

...

The explicit racism measures asked respondents whether they agreed or disagreed with a series of statements about black and Hispanic people. In addition, the surveys asked how well respondents thought certain words, such as "friendly," "hardworking," "violent" and "lazy," described blacks, whites and Hispanics...
The mind is shaped by experiences, and League of Legends as an experience will continue to inform the beliefs of impressionable players for decades to come as to the nature of what is 'awesome", "cool", or "worthy of aspiration", just as Riot designers were once perverted to their current mindsets to be unreachable by players on this subject.


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Knife Kitty GG

Senior Member

10-28-2012

If your thinkin bout my baby it don't matter if your black or white!
-Michael Jackson