DFG nerf doesn't make sense.

First Riot Post
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Reizuc

Senior Member

10-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by JuanDeages View Post
This nerf is still one of the biggest I've seen since I have started playing this game. We will see soon enough just how good or bad DFG is after the fact.

One thing I would like to see, however, is just how cost effecient it is without any CDR.
My point being is that it is still gonna be a strong item on AP Carries that need it. It went from an item no one used, to almost every AP Caster using it. I don't think that is what Riot intended for it.

Without the CDR, I'm sure it's pretty inefficient in the cost department. And I also agree that the total removal of the CDR was a bit much. Active nerf, not so bad. Total removal of another stat, pretty bad.


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AnonTwo

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Senior Member

10-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by TasogareReiken View Post
That doesn't make any sense.

Nerfing is an act of 'balance'. There is no balance with nerfing an item to the point that it can't be used.
Except it can still be used, this is being exaggerated way out of proportion.


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Sann92

Senior Member

10-25-2012

The CDR was just nonsense. Where it come from? In terms of damage its ok...


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JuanDeages

Senior Member

10-25-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sann92 View Post
The CDR was just nonsense. Where it come from? In terms of damage its ok...
DFG was previously built from fiendish codex, which has 10% CDR, so when you upgraded to DFG you got 5% on top of that. And the damage from DFG is better than ok, that's why its being nerfed into oblivion.


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Camel Scary

Senior Member

10-25-2012

i dont get the deal, the active is a long cool down, only optimal at full hp and easily hammered by MR, only if the enemy carries are stupid and get caught the problem arises, although the active is pretty awesome for bursting


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Phreak

Shoutcaster

10-25-2012
1 of 2 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by JuanDeages View Post
Instead of the mega nerf that is planned for DFG, why not just revert it back to its previous state? It existed pre-rework for as long as I can remember, and I started in the middle of season 1. There was no outcry to nerf it into the ground then, so I'm going to go out on a limb here and say it was a balanced item before the changes.

Thoughts?
One thing to realize with stuff like this is that people get better at the game. They learn things. There's a lot of things you can't "go back" on. Take Spell Vamp for example. We released Hextech Revolver at 10%. No one used it. Buffed to 15%. No one used it. Buffed to 20%. People finally started using it. Had to nerf it multiple times all the way to 12% and make it a Unique Passive and now it's reasonably balanced. It takes people a while to get used to new mechanics and use them fully.

Innervating Locket wasn't always called the best item in the game. People had to learn it was OP.

Deathfire Grasp with any sort of high numbers is honestly pretty problematic. As people got better at builds, they realized they could 1-shot people.

DfG has/had two problems:

1. If it's worth an early buy, it completely shuts down people early on. For example, there's not even a choice of "Do I use Magic Resist Glyphs?" You just use them because you get 1-shotted otherwise. And you just buy DfG because it's the best.

This came in the form of lowering the base base damage so that you didn't one-shot people.

2. The active is honestly underappreciated. Go actually look at the item and look at the costs and stats: It's a pretty big combine of 975, sure. But it builds out of a gp10, meaning it's cheaper than that. It gives you 15 free AP, meaning it's also ~330 gold on the combine. You're paying a really small amount for what's left over: This used to be 15% CDR and a crazy good active. Well we basically made you pay for the active now. The active used to be free. You could plan on buying this item, forget to ever use the active, and still come out with a pretty decent idea.

Look at Zhonya's Hourglass, Guardian Angel, or Quicksilver Sash. You're paying for the active on each one of those, and in each of those cases, they're amazing items.

Look at a full offense build: Pick up Rabadon's + Void Staff or Abyssal/Haunting. If you're looking to increase your damage, your next build here is Deathfire Grasp. That item will give you what you desire: Supreme single-target damage. If you want to deal as much damage to an individual target as possible, your buy is Deathfire Grasp. That's honestly where the item should live. Not "Well, it's the best item, so I'll buy it."

We're actually getting pretty reasonable AP itemization going. Sometimes, you want RoA. Sometimes, you want to rush Deathcap. Sometimes you want to stack flat penetration. Sometimes you want early Spell Vamp. Sometimes you want Athene's. That was pretty much all dominated by "Rush Deathfire." Honestly, the item is okay under the premise of: I buy this to deal more single target damage." It doesn't need any other stats to support that. And if the numbers are so good that it's also the best first item to buy, you've kinda just broken itemization.


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WalkTheNikasaur

Member

10-25-2012

Well, DFG is the best right now.


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Afflictid

Senior Member

10-25-2012

DFG will almost never see the light of day.

The item COULD be reworked so it isn't so ridiculous against non-tanks, seeing as it's intended purpose was to help AP deal with the tankier types. Something along the lines of: Deals damage equal to 20% of the target's health with a bonus 6% per 100 armor and mr the target has.

This way the damage will pretty much be the same a cross all targets. If you hit a squishy with it, it might deal 26% damage, hit a tank with it, it will probably do the same amount because the MR will reduce it.


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Falkentyne

Senior Member

10-25-2012

The DFG should NOT EVEN be in the game, period. All you trolls that need to play broken champs, like Eve, just to carry, with a gamebreaking item, when you can't play a REAL champ worth 2 cents, should just keep crying.

It's still a good item to use vs tanks. Maybe now you Karthus haters will find a different way to handle killing that champ.


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j1s4

Member

10-25-2012

Honestly with a huge nerf as its getting they might as well just take it out of the game no one is going to buy it anymore, waste of gold.