Zileas' List of Game Design Anti-Patterns

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Zaresin

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Senior Member

10-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
Any duration is anti-fun. But the abilities also create gameplay. For smaller stuns, the gameplay exceeds the anti-fun and thus is OK. At some point, the gameplay created by these abilities gets outweighed by the anti-fun of a long stun. I think it's a feel thing. Generally when you start talking about repeated micro-stuns or 5+ seconds, you are probably in that territory. Before that, it's more subjective.
Zileas...I do believe you called me a pretentious wanker...this calls for fisticuffs.


On a serious note..whats with all the necrod threads coming back...did we have a zombie apocalypse and no one told me about it?

From the other side...I forgot about this thread...good reading.


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Uiraya

Senior Member

10-16-2012

Has anyone considered that having a ranking system based on four complete strangers not being houseplants, trolls, elo-boostees, or leavers is anti-fun? Winning because an opponent disconnected sucks and losing because of it sucks even worse. Yet the arbitrary lucky five go up and the unlucky four go down. Elo as a ranking is suitable for 5v5 team premades and NOTHING ELSE.
~Uiru


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mogonk

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Senior Member

10-16-2012

This is a great set of instructions for "what not to do" when creating a popular commercial game for a large audience. Much as a how-to guide by James Patterson might be a useful resource for writing a book that will be successful and appeal to a broad audience.

However, Zileas' insights into game design have as much relevance to creating a really great game as James Patterson's insights into writing do to creating the next great American novel. A hack can give you wonderful advice for being a better hack, but that's about it. If you are interested in game design so that you can make products to sell to people, read all of Zileas' posts.


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AgonisT

Senior Member

10-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zileas View Post
Any duration is anti-fun. But the abilities also create gameplay. For smaller stuns, the gameplay exceeds the anti-fun and thus is OK. At some point, the gameplay created by these abilities gets outweighed by the anti-fun of a long stun. I think it's a feel thing. Generally when you start talking about repeated micro-stuns or 5+ seconds, you are probably in that territory. Before that, it's more subjective.
So if you were for example to create a support type champ that had a Karthus style ult that stunned instead of damaging, would this be considered anti-fun? I think not simply because despite it being an extremely powerful ability in the right circumstances (same as Karthus'), it not only can be completely pointless when used at the wrong time but also gives the opponent a heads up that the ability is about to take effect.


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Llann

Senior Member

10-16-2012

No clue if this was mentioned in the last two years, but something to add:

Engineered Difficulty
I.e abilities which are intentionally made harder to use simply in order to create or extend a skill cap. E.g TBC WoW affliction warlocks with four DoTs, all on different timers, or warriors weaving slam timers in between regular white attacks. (Meanwhile mages/destro locks got the same dps spamming fireball/shadowbolt).

Skillshots in LoL are a little bit like this - but generally create a good payoff for the associated difficulty, while also getting easier to hit the close/more aggressively the enemy is playing.

(Great thread, btw, and I remember Zileas from wc3 beta days, breaking the game every new patch. "This time - make lots of skeletons! LOTS!")


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Llann

Senior Member

10-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by UlquiorraKuchiki View Post
So if you were for example to create a support type champ that had a Karthus style ult that stunned instead of damaging, would this be considered anti-fun? I think not simply because despite it being an extremely powerful ability in the right circumstances (same as Karthus'), it not only can be completely pointless when used at the wrong time but also gives the opponent a heads up that the ability is about to take effect.
Sona is already winning games just with a wide effect skillshot team stun. A guaranteed team stun on any cooldown would immediately break the game. =/


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InShortSight

Senior Member

10-16-2012

i find orianas ultimate unreliable with its range/delay or something that always makes me miss it at least once when i play her, can you make it a lot stronger plox :3


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I Am Tolan

Member

10-19-2012

Bam


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Millien

Junior Member

10-22-2012

So by limiting the mechanics and forcing players into a game that can only be played one way in a very specific style is supposed to be more fun than a game where the players actually have choice and can have a meaningful impact on it?


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Kyzantyr

Junior Member

10-22-2012

It's funny because you guys are obliviously being called retarded by Riot. The fact that they won't have any abilities beyond the complexity of a 4 year old's imagination is bland and stupid.

We have brains, Riot, make us use them. This is SUPPOSED to be a competitive game, after all.