@Morello: Let's talk Varus

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Meddler

Lead Champion Designer

10-21-2012
3 of 5 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharag View Post
I'm not going to argue about his strength/weakness or how OP/UP he might be, rather, I would like to talk about his design and how it feels to play him.

I don't like the way his Blighted Quiver works. It's not very fulfilling in regards to the rest of his kit.

Whenever I try to "optimize" my play and use an ability after every 3 auto-attacks, I can't help but feel bad.

If I trigger the stacks with Q, it's most often the shortest Q and thus minimal damage from Q. That feels kinda wasted. Not to mention that you want to save that Q to snipe low-hp fleeing enemies when they flash away from you (very, very often).

Using R, his ult to trigger it is also in rare situations as you will most often want to use that ult as initiation or help in escape.

So, you pretty much have just E which is also often better to use earlier in fights due to the utility it provides.


I know these are choices to increase his gameplay, but I think their "cost" is too high. Whichever choice I make, I often wonder would the other choice be better and I always feel like I lost something.

Maybe that's just me. What do you think? What do other Varus players think?


P.S. I know you (and all the other Rioters) are now swamped with the Championship, but I'd be grateful if you could share your thoughts on the matter (now or after the finals, same to me). Thanks!
Blighted Quiver was designed to do a number of things on Varus' kit:

- Amplify the value of hitting his spells during extended combats, without simply increasing the upfront damage of those spells in an instant burst situation.

- Create a series of choices around ability use e.g. when to poke versus when to save CDs for a closer fight, number of stacks to try for, value of focusing a target versus opportunistically shifting to another etc

- Offer support for hybrid/AP builds in a way that kept Q and E relevant despite the fact you wouldn't be getting much AD scaling on them (increased value on their stack proccing rather than their raw damage)

- Provide a series of small moments of threat in lane for the Varus player to capitalize on and the enemy to have to play around (having a couple of Blight stacks on you noticeably increases the importance of avoiding Varus' next ability for a little while)

Generally I'm happy with how those goals are met. I agree though that there's a bit more conflict between Blight proccing and standard ability use than's ideal. Some degree of tension between different choices can be very valuable in creating gameplay choices, Varus' cooldowns however are arguably a bit long however, especially at low spell ranks, and as a result that trade off can feel a bit too punishing. As a result if we end up wanting to add a bit more power to Varus at some point the first thing I'd want to investigate would be lowering his cooldowns a bit to address that imbalance between stack generation and stack popping ability, particularly since CDR isn't generally a feasible part of a carry build.

Quote:
Heading over to join the discussion in that thread now.


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GhostStalker

Senior Member

10-21-2012

Meddler, why not have Piercing Arrow have a varying cooldown depending on how long it's charged for? So if you use a near instant peircing arrow it would have a significantly shorter cooldown, and a longer charged arrow would be the same cooldown we experience now?

Mana cost could remain the same.


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Meddler

Lead Champion Designer

10-21-2012
4 of 5 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostStalker86 View Post
Meddler, why not have Piercing Arrow have a varying cooldown depending on how long it's charged for? So if you use a near instant peircing arrow it would have a significantly shorter cooldown, and a longer charged arrow would be the same cooldown we experience now?

Mana cost could remain the same.
Allowing Varus to use Piercing Arrow a bit more in the midst of a fight would be nice, definitely with you there. I'd want to avoid something that effectively punished you for charging it though - at the moment you're already sacrificing a bit of movement speed and possibly auto attack time, having a higher CD on top of that would be quite punitive.


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Fenix Darkblaze

Senior Member

10-21-2012

I think an interesting idea would be that if one of Varus' abilities detonates three blight stacks, then it lowers the cooldown on the ability used. That would be a good way to make the three standard attacks -> Piercing Arrow poke very rewarding, I think.


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str0nk

Senior Member

10-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
Allowing Varus to use Piercing Arrow a bit more in the midst of a fight would be nice, definitely with you there. I'd want to avoid something that effectively punished you for charging it though - at the moment you're already sacrificing a bit of movement speed and possibly auto attack time, having a higher CD on top of that would be quite punitive.
MEDDLER, RIVEN PLS.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2697270


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LightEcho

Senior Member

10-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
Allowing Varus to use Piercing Arrow a bit more in the midst of a fight would be nice, definitely with you there. I'd want to avoid something that effectively punished you for charging it though - at the moment you're already sacrificing a bit of movement speed and possibly auto attack time, having a higher CD on top of that would be quite punitive.
What about the opposite have the cd begin after you start charging not after firing.


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GhostStalker

Senior Member

10-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
Allowing Varus to use Piercing Arrow a bit more in the midst of a fight would be nice, definitely with you there. I'd want to avoid something that effectively punished you for charging it though - at the moment you're already sacrificing a bit of movement speed and possibly auto attack time, having a higher CD on top of that would be quite punitive.
Yeah, the man issue is I want to use piercing arrow more. I feel like if I'm using it very quickly without charging it, it should be available more often to use in that fashion. I want to detonate my blight stacks. And I want piercing arrow to do that for me more-so than any other ability.

And why not let Varus Ultimate apply a full stack of blight to those afflicted with it instead of having it detonate stacks of blight?


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MandyMemory

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Senior Member

10-21-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
Allowing Varus to use Piercing Arrow a bit more in the midst of a fight would be nice, definitely with you there. I'd want to avoid something that effectively punished you for charging it though - at the moment you're already sacrificing a bit of movement speed and possibly auto attack time, having a higher CD on top of that would be quite punitive.
Okay okay I got it.
CD reduced by 1 second for each champion hit.

This would allow you to toss a few more out in a teamfight without it being crazy in lane.

Maybe something with lowered cd if it procs blight?


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Toysoldier

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Senior Member

10-21-2012

The passive stacks need to stay on champs longer giving a bigger window to use them.


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QuartzDragonFire

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Senior Member

10-22-2012

I could see the vast majority seeing this as a penalty when it would really be a buff... :/