Riot, all this mess about incoming Sona nerfs is a proof of reverse power creep.

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Papaya01

Junior Member

10-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhailRaptor View Post
Ezreal has nerfs already being finalized on the internal test realm. We'll probably see them with the next champion. Though I'd agree with you on Graves... he's been too strong for far too long now, and that last nerf of his didn't really do much.
wtf the cowboy is ok the problem is the blonde girl, l2p


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GROMkill

Senior Member

10-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhailRaptor View Post
Ezreal has nerfs already being finalized on the internal test realm. We'll probably see them with the next champion. Though I'd agree with you on Graves... he's been too strong for far too long now, and that last nerf of his didn't really do much.
I disagree. The base attack speed nerf really hurt Graves. I think he's in a balanced position. Corki's in a good place, too, with his passive not critting now. Ezreal needs phat nerfs though. 40 mana for an extra free auto-attack with long-range is OP.


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ActionButlerGO

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Senior Member

10-16-2012

Remind me again, does Darius' ult still deal a metric ton of true damage and refresh-on-kill?


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Soliasildo

Senior Member

10-16-2012

Sona had too much general utility, so that was nerfed. Then she had too much sustain, so that was nerfed. Now she evidently has too much poke, so that's being nerfed. So now she'll be reduced to a walking ult, which Morello will decide to nerf because it's too good compared to Leona's or Blitzcrank's ultimate and that hurts their feelings. You've systematically stripped away everything that made Sona fun, and made her a troll pick like Tryndamere or old Eve. Congratulations.


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Yune9

Member

10-16-2012

Isn't the idea behind a support to be really strong early in terms of damage/heals but fall off later (high base numbers with low scaling) as well as a good amount of utility through out the game.

I think instead of nerfing sona, alistar, blitz, and leona (note of these ali and blitz are banned much more often then sona ever is) you should buff the other supports (soraka, lulu, taric, ect)

lulu in particular has been suffering a bit since the major nerfs.


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Padagi

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Senior Member

10-16-2012

The supports aren't OP. Their cohesion with the AD carries is, particularly in the case of Ezreal and Sona.

The truth is the win rate for the extraordinarily OP Ez is really throwing Sona's win rates out of whack. When he's nerfed, her win rate (and his) will go down.

So ya, don't nerf Sona. Instead, fix Ezreal ASAP.


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Beatrix

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Senior Member

10-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
Comparing a champion that was widly overpowered (let's go look at those release numbers, eh?) to the current state isn't a valid data set. By this logic, Vlad is terrible and unusable, as is TF and Zyra :P

Sona's GREAT right now. She's very good, and very strong - superb poke, good utility, and tank-level AOE CC. Saying she's bad is just...wrong.
There are a lot of champions out there that have support aspects: Strong poke, utility, and even some AoE CC. However they're also allowed to build damage and even some of them have spell ratios. They never see nerfs. Why are they allowed to exist, yet whenever a support AP or alternative build becomes popular, it's immediately weakened? I didn't see a lot of issues with AP Janna or Soraka, but they were both weakened pretty quickly. I have never understood this.


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fCKzAr

Senior Member

10-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by PhailRaptor View Post
Ezreal has nerfs already being finalized on the internal test realm. We'll probably see them with the next champion. Though I'd agree with you on Graves... he's been too strong for far too long now, and that last nerf of his didn't really do much.
Just reduce the AS debuff to ~20% flat for 3 secs and he's gonna be ok.


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Ask Tyrant Swain

Member

10-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Morello View Post
This is a red herring. The power level across the board, generally, is up - we constantly add total power to the game. There's zero evidence of a progression of reverse power creep - in fact, our game is power-creeping a little.

For supports, we're going to take it on the chin if we ever nerf any of them at this point, regardless of if it is or isn't correct - the negative feelings of the nerfs we've done have really left a sour taste in people's mouth (and I can understand that).

What this means, is it's going to be even harder to get usable feedback because it's going to be a lot of frustration and anger (Hostile Miku finally lost it with the idea of another Sona nerf!). It's very, very clear to me that this will anger people - I get that.

I also want to be clear, while I'm signing off on this stuff, this is the recommendation my experts are making - and their analysis checks out. I'll ask them to come give it in person on the forums if we do decide to hit Sona so there's more context. That won't solve the anger problem (you can't out-logic emotion), but maybe at least make it understandable.

It's tough, because in cases like this we have to make a choice between making players mad or doing what makes the game better and more balanced. Making players mad isn't something we like to do, but sometimes it is something we have to do.

What I will say is, if we do push supports out, we'll get them back in - just like we did with Sona. We'll just be faster next time Out goal is not to push them out, but it's also not OK to have only Sona/Janna/Soraka used (this was literally six weeks ago in NA finals). If Sona is pushing out Lulu, Janna, and Soraka, that's as much of a problem as if it Leona or Blitz were doing it.
Quote:
that's as much of a problem as if it Leona or Blitz were doing it.
But Leona (maybe to a lesser extent than the other three), Alistar, Blitz and Taric are doing it.


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Papaya01

Junior Member

10-16-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ActionButlerGO View Post
Remind me again, does Darius' ult still deal a metric ton of true damage and refresh-on-kill?
no mobility champ, stop qq, veigar can burst a 4k hp tank in 1sec, why no noe use veigar cuz no mobilty, l2p