Syndra Quality of Life/Useability changes

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Silent Reaper

Senior Member

10-12-2012

Are there any number buffs?

Her early game is pretty good but as soon as it hits late game...lol she can't do anything to tanks/bruisers so her peel really isn't all that very effective...not to mention needs needs a TON of CDR just to make the CC feel good in team fights.


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TWNS

Member

10-12-2012

I think these QoL bug fixes are really going to help Syndra's gameplay and overall feeling when playing her. Just having her be more responsive so one can combo her spells together already is a huge improvement.

In terms of the ult range increase, I think it can have a very strong effect at lower level of play where people don't have perfect positioning. However, the range on her ult greatly hinders her play at higher ELO and skill level where she must place herself in very risky situation in order to ult someone squishy (by late game people have enough mr that it's hard for her to get her ult on anyone except a tank, and it takes too much time to build up a 6-7 orb ult to really do damage). She is not tanky enough, she's not mobile enough, and she's not bursty enough at late game to really justify putting herself in such dangerous situations.

She can provide 2 things to team fights: amazing burst 100-0 an adc, or great aoe utility with ult + e for 4-5 ball long range cone knock up and stun. However, Syndra can't do both: she gets 1, and both are extremely reliant on her ult. When she has to be so close range to a bruiser whose job it is to kill her, it's very easy for her to be focused down to a point where she's dead before she can even contribute good utility to a team fight (3 ball ult + e would be the fastest combo for utility). Now good positioning can solve this, but I think it's safe to say she has less options for safe positioning than most AP mids.

Ults are so important to this game that it's hard to see Syndra's ult really be maximized in high level play where players won't let her get the time to get very many balls out and won't let her do much follow up damage after it (mostly due to long q cooldown until CDR items). Looking at heroes such as Morgana, Cassiopeia, Anivia, Orianna etc.. their ults are either extremely long range or short range, but the range is very justified.

Looking at short range ults: Cassiopeia/Morgana provide aoe stuns with their ults and thus justify having shorter ranges. Anivia's ult is short range but makes up for it with almost endless late game aoe utility (when Anivia has blue/mana regen), and Ahri's relatively short range aoe ult is compensated by high mobility.

Looking at long range ults: Orianna's ult while maybe not high in damage provides amazing crowd control with decent aoe damage. Gragas's ult is aoe damage, long range, and provides a knock back that is huge for disrupting team fights.

Meanwhile, Syndra has a short range single target ult that requires time to maximize her damage, and while the damage can definitely be higher than ults of champions I've previously mentioned, her ult takes much longer to get to that maximum damage than say someone like Veigar, who has slightly less range on his single target nuke but doesn't require more than 1 click to apply damage. Increasing the range would definitely make her viable in competitive play, where true balance should be struck.


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NVDax

Senior Member

10-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuicideCreamPuff View Post
thank you riot!

now fix twitch please! =)
He brings a valid point, although this isn't the thread for it. Qol for Twitch would be much appreciated.

Resuming to being back on topic, YESSSSSS, these changes are awesome Syndra would be so much better if one of these went through.


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Yomeiro

Senior Member

10-12-2012

Just asking because of the bug fixes, but are there fixes for her W incoming as well when throwing a sphere/minion?

When you throw these, sometimes they get stuck at the beginning/mid-air of the throw, still dealing damage but at the wrong place....

If you cast her Q at the same time her W would deal damage, her W won't deal any damage (just when Q and W are cast at the same place).

I think I'm missing one thing with her W but not sure what it is >-<


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Kakyoin Noriaki

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Senior Member

10-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
3. Fixing the cooldown check on the ultimate so that it doesn't go on cooldown without casting, whether because the target died mid animation or because spellshields are being checked for at start of cast, not at point of missile impact.
YES.

Thank you so much for looking into the cooldown check on Unleashed Power.


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Thundercleese

Senior Member

10-12-2012

I wish you guys had made the balls stay in play longer. It would make for a really neat dynamic if the ult could only be cast on a player inside of a triangle that the balls made so there could be some setup needed and counterplay options. Instead its just another single target nuke that leaves a buncha balls everyewhere...


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AfflictionArmada

Junior Member

10-12-2012

I do believe the range of her ult needs to be longer. If a nerf to her ult damage is necessary, its fine. You cant use it now because you'll get out of positioning.


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Feladorzor

Senior Member

10-12-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meddler View Post
Hey folks,

Just wanted to let you know about some useability/quality of life changes we're currently testing for Syndra and also gather some feedback to see if there's anything else we might have missed that would it would be appropriate to bundle with them. We didn't get Syndra's state quite right on launch, both in terms of simple power and in terms of spell timings, which in retrospect left her abilities both harder to use/more delayed than was appropriate and light on the actual pay off when executed correctly. In the last balance patch we buffed the damage, range and/or mana cost on her skills so now we're looking at tweaking the performance on her abilities themselves (this sort of stuff takes longer to do, hence the changes being split into two patches).
Hello Meddler. Thank you for acknowledging that Syndra is indeed quite unreliable as a champion right now, its promising to know that she's not being left as is for the next year on the hopes someone 'discovers' her.

A few days after Syndras release I made a thread with my analysis of her. It got 150+ upvotes showing that many people were having issues with her basic design. I will just say that I was against her damage buffs as I knew she required more than just buffs/nerfs to her numbers, she almost needed a redesign to fix the awkwardness of her kit.

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/....php?t=2574259 - Link to said thread.

If you would please take a few minutes to read it, it will save me the trouble of typing everything in here. In any case, I came up with a solution to fixing Syndra which will make her feel like a combo champ, creating synergy in her kit and make her viable in team fights all while remaining true to her initial design intentions. Keep in mind that this fix would be for Syndra in her current state without any QoL or Usability changes, bar maybe some damage reduction due to the impact it would have;

Any active 'Dark Spheres' which are activated by Syndra's other abilities will now add bonus magic damage (equivalent to Dark Sphere).

I believe that this simple change will completely solidify the way that Syndra is meant to be played while making her kit flow with synergy. Syndra can now set up her Spheres without sacrificing the majority of her damage output because those active orbs will now deal the same damage as Q on top of whatever spell she uses on it.

Force of Will: When leashing a Dark Sphere deals 80/120/160/200/240 (+0.7) + 60/100/140/180/220 (+0.5) in additional magic damage. Does not add bonus magic damage when throwing minions or monsters.

Scatter the Weak: Each Dark Sphere activated by Scatter the Weak deals 70/115/160/205/250 (+0.4) + 60/100/140/180/220 (+0.5) in additional magic damage.

Unleashed Power: Does not get additional bonus damage from active orbs.

Despite the ultimate not getting the damage bonus this allows for one very important thing to happen. Syndra can now use her single target ultimate on a bruiser/tank in the middle of a team fight and follow that up with Scatter the Weak, dealing lots of AoE damage and distorting the enemy team.

Again, this type of change would require a review of her damage output, but this is just what she needs to become a viable mage with a fluid kit. Right now she just isn't a combo champ, she is a champion with 4 seperate skills that do their own thing and the only thing that makes them remotely similar is the underwhelming interaction between the Dark Spheres. The suggested change could even be a new passive for her.

Thank you for reading good sir, I hope whatever changes you do make to Syndra they will be good. Anivia is a shining example of a champion that has a fluid kit and I hope that can be replicated with Syndra.


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Swiftiez

Junior Member

10-12-2012

Here's an idea. If Syndra uses W to pick up her own orb it stays with her until reactivation of W. This should not be the case when using the ability on a minion. This would allow her a bit of burst, safety, and roaming gank potential. This should not change the cooldown timer as it begins on W reactivation.

When we look as mage gameplay, most of them have a setup to execute large damage. (Ahri, Diana, Veigar, etc.) With Syndra her stun is tricky to land due to ball direction and positioning (you have to be in a straight line with the target). This feature makes optimal positioning unwieldy to line up a stun for a burst combo to follow. Also why would you make her stun ability move targets out of range for her to burst? This essentially turns her into a support, not an assassin.

Her trade-offs in the magic triad of burst, survivability and mobility are out of whack because all of these are low. For Syndra to be useful, one of these must be raised so the trade-off is intuitively apparent.


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Sasanian

Senior Member

10-12-2012

make ult reset on kill be best buff to make her viable, or W can pick up champions for a very short amount of time.