"Relax, it's Dominion"

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blackDAILO

Senior Member

10-10-2012

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Originally Posted by Divergence View Post
I don't know how you can honestly think people can't get fed in dominion. I've seen some bruisers/hyper carries get so out of control in Dominion that they can 1v4 no problem.
This guy needs to learn what he's talking about.

You are making yourself look ****ing stupid here..


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Divergence

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Junior Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackDAILO View Post
This guy needs to learn what he's talking about.

You are making yourself look ****ing stupid here..
I'm the one presenting an argument in a calm manner, in order to discuss it. You're the one calling somebody an idiot without providing any sort of counterargument, proof, or reasoning.

Which one of us is looking ****ing stupid?


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Hamm3rhand

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Senior Member

10-10-2012

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Originally Posted by Divergence View Post
I'm not sure if I read your first statement right.. are you saying that SR top laners are overpowered? If that's the case I'm going to have to disagree. Top lane tends to be the lane that sees the fewest bans. Granted, Shen and Malphite are extremely good in top lane and very ban worthy but more often than not you see bans going out on supports, junglers, and midlaners. Morgana, Evelynn, TF, Alistar, Blitzcrank and Ezreal are seeing a huge amount of bans right now and none of them are even moderately viable for top.

I think you're also forgetting many how many of the popular supports right now have active roles. Blitzcrank, Sona and Taric all provide active roles to their teams. Blitzcrank hooks can turn games, Sona's ult is HUGE, not to mention her early game burst and Taric's stun/ult/shatter combo makes him excellent at grabbing kills early/mid game.

Edit: sorry about the double post!
this kinda got lost in the shuffle, so i wanted to reply to this. (btw i think that haifhearted makes very good points, and i basically second what he is saying).

What dominion players are saying is that the common top laners really actually ARE OP, most SR just don't know how so because for a couple of reasons.

First - there is a large difference because of the 1v1 nature of the laning phase - yes they can spiral out of control but they generally have another OP to go against them during that part and that can somewhat keep them in check (only during that part though). You can see this during the finals - watch maknoon play jayce and see how he chunks people for >50% of their health in mid game with just a couple of attacks. note how his performance skyrockets as soon as the laning phase ends and he comes up against people other than his lane opponent.

Second - there aren't as many teamfights in SR as in Dom, and losing one lane in SR has fairly game ending consequences if the other lanes on your team can't pick up the slack. This places more importance on bans to get rid of the slight differences in power between midlane/botlane champs as opposed to toplane, where there are enough of the OP bruiser champs that you can almost always find one that will work. This is very different than in Dom, where there are constant teamfights, and when one champion is significantly stronger in terms of stats/abilities/ratios, it makes a significant difference, and one that is readily apparent. Jayce is probably the most egregious example of this. It is also more easily seen because of the lower death timers. If you have to spend a lot of resources to kill someone (more than they have to spend killing you) and then they come back with not much of a penalty, then you can easily feel the difference in strength.

Thirdly - for whatever reason it takes y'all forever to come up with the right build or there is something that just pulls on you to buy those triforces. I think it took about 3 days after his release for most of our high-elo players to decide that the infinity edge build was stronger on jayce than triforce, and yet dyrus STILL built triforce during his game (note - he did later say that he built jayce wrong, so at least he knows) even after maknoon showed how much of a powerhouse the AD build is. But even this has only been discovered recently. Honestly, jayce is a lot more manageable if he builds triforce than if he builds IE as he simply is not as strong. Builds for mages tend to differ quite a lot as well, but part of that is the style of play as well as the dominion aura making it not necessary to build any mana regen unless you are an extremely heavy mana user bot lane.

Fourth - "active" roles differ A LOT between dominion and SR. your active role for sona is casting her ult. tarics and blitz is casting their q's. (mostly). This is due mostly to the meta in SR and the fact that supports don't get power items, whereas in Dom, the gold gain is ensured and so they can get cool stuff. Check out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9Gowo6hlWc for what happens when you give taric real items. lulu is a freakin boss, soraka is a BAMF if you let her be, and nunu is unkillable. There is a reason that lulu is a perma ban on the level of kassadin and jayce.


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HaIfhearted

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Dailo, it actually IS possible to snowball in Dominion.

I have seen hyper carries like Kog'maw/Vayne and extremely powerful bruisers like Jax/Olaf get a few early kills, and start wrecking everything to the point where they can be 1k+ gold and a level or 2 over anyone on the enemy team.

It's a lot more rare, and definitely not to the (ridiculous) extent that happens on SR/TT, but it can still happen.


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Divergence

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Junior Member

10-10-2012

Hi, Hammerhand. Thanks for taking the time to make a reasonable response. I have to admit, after looking over everything and thinking about it I cant disagree with you on a single point.

I played a little bit more dominion than usual today and I am starting to realize that Jax and similar champions are just -insane-. I've also really enjoyed exploring battle-crank (my new favorite dominion champ).

I'll probably be playing quite a bit more dominion in the future.

That said: I have no idea how we ended up on this topic. Sorry for sidetracking things! We started off talking about how casual builds/attitudes in Dominion were unacceptable to OP. That... I still disagree with.


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Hamm3rhand

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Senior Member

10-10-2012

Oh, though a comment on the hypercarries and being able to 1v4: that is generally an indication of very poorly skilled players. 99% of the time, you would be hard pressed to find a champ that can successfully 1v2 without the use of a tower. Kassadin maybe, jayce if they don't have enough armor or cc, xin if he build right and they don't have cc, yorick probably. Now if you add a tower, that list goes way up, mostly including really tanky derps and people with strong stealths and burst. now, 2v3s i could see if it is the combination of a superfed ad carry like ez or vayne and a real cc heavy tank like amumu, ali or leona, if (again) the people don't have enough cc to lock down the carry and the carry is able to sit back and just pour fire into their locked down soon-to-be-corpses. But even getting to that point is rare in a game, as the passive gold gain, reduced champion kill values, and little farming will really keep most champions on a fairly even keel with the exception of bot lane. This is one reason why it is sometimes a good strategy to stick an AD carry bot lane at the beginning to let them actually get farm, and then switch them out to top because the extra 2000-3000 gold that they get from farming for 15 minutes is a major factor. that one bf sword extra is a striking difference when everyone else has about the same value of items.


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Hamm3rhand

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Senior Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Divergence View Post
Hi, Hammerhand. Thanks for taking the time to make a reasonable response. I have to admit, after looking over everything and thinking about it I cant disagree with you on a single point.

I played a little bit more dominion than usual today and I am starting to realize that Jax and similar champions are just -insane-. I've also really enjoyed exploring battle-crank (my new favorite dominion champ).

I'll probably be playing quite a bit more dominion in the future.

That said: I have no idea how we ended up on this topic. Sorry for sidetracking things! We started off talking about how casual builds/attitudes in Dominion were unacceptable to OP. That... I still disagree with.
You're welcome! and thanks for remaining level-headed despite some of the vitriol thrown your way.

jax is just an excellent duelist, probably one of the best. a tip - build frozen heart to help deal with him, also malphite with FH is basically impossible for him to kill. Oh, and if you can keep him from stunning you like with a vayne push or something then he is much easier to deal with if he doesn't have a free 2 seconds to wail on you. He is very aa dependent.

ah, its fine - i don't ever expect the 4th page of comments on any thread to be related to the actual OP.


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AerosMacCousland

Senior Member

10-10-2012

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Originally Posted by HaIfhearted View Post
Dailo, it actually IS possible to snowball in Dominion.

I have seen hyper carries like Kog'maw/Vayne and extremely powerful bruisers like Jax/Olaf get a few early kills, and start wrecking everything to the point where they can be 1k+ gold and a level or 2 over anyone on the enemy team.

It's a lot more rare, and definitely not to the (ridiculous) extent that happens on SR/TT, but it can still happen.
^ Agreed

also on Hardcore Snowballers Like Akali and Talon you can see a HUGE Difference when you start getting Gold Kills on I already had Games where I was Like 3 levels ahead of the worst guy on the enemy Team Scorewise(Aka the Poor Karthus who I permaganked all game long on Bot) and thats is from personnal experince of being the Snowballed one


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SuperQuackDuck

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Divergence View Post
Hi, Hammerhand. Thanks for taking the time to make a reasonable response. I have to admit, after looking over everything and thinking about it I cant disagree with you on a single point.

I played a little bit more dominion than usual today and I am starting to realize that Jax and similar champions are just -insane-. I've also really enjoyed exploring battle-crank (my new favorite dominion champ).

I'll probably be playing quite a bit more dominion in the future.

That said: I have no idea how we ended up on this topic. Sorry for sidetracking things! We started off talking about how casual builds/attitudes in Dominion were unacceptable to OP. That... I still disagree with.
Welcome to dominion. May you find all your SR games to be boring forevermore.


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blackDAILO

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by HaIfhearted View Post
Dailo, it actually IS possible to snowball in Dominion.

I have seen hyper carries like Kog'maw/Vayne and extremely powerful bruisers like Jax/Olaf get a few early kills, and start wrecking everything to the point where they can be 1k+ gold and a level or 2 over anyone on the enemy team.

It's a lot more rare, and definitely not to the (ridiculous) extent that happens on SR/TT, but it can still happen.
Yeah I understand where you are coming from, but I am pretty sure bot lane can obtain more gold than the rest of the team in most cases.

Running top, I don't think that a champ can go blatantly out of control.

But if you are talking a bot champ that switched to top late game, well.. haha

Quote:
Originally Posted by Divergence View Post
I'm the one presenting an argument in a calm manner, in order to discuss it. You're the one calling somebody an idiot without providing any sort of counterargument, proof, or reasoning.

Which one of us is looking ****ing stupid?
Hey man, didn't mean to give this out in a rude manner. Had a rough day, hope you can understand.

But I personally disagree on your attitude of "relax, this is a fun game mode." I am a person that likes winning. Any game mode, be it ARAM, SR, or Dominion, I pour my heart for the win every single game. Yeah I might not be a good player but I just think that this kind of attitude will improve my game.

So yeah here it is, sorry if it seemed rude earlier.