Best Katarina Build?

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xMugix

Junior Member

10-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ur little sister View Post
1) this post will ppb get downvoted. (just warning in advance, almost all my Kat posts tend to get downvoted into oblivion)
2) You can check ANY of my claims.
3) This post doesn't apply to jungle Katarina or top lane tank Kat.

a) AD is a wasted stat on her. Pretty much all it's good for is lasthitting. People think AD is good on her because she has AD scalings, but then you do the math and find out that every action she can perform in the game scales way harder with AP than AD. (Keep in mind that gold-efficiŽncy wise AD is 2ce as expensive as AP.)
b) Spellvamp is barely worth it. No, seriously, it isn't. The reason it's still bought is because gunblade was core on old Kat for several reasons that changed during the rework. The largest change to the spellvamp component is the fact that new BB is considered and AoE spell. This dramatically lessens the effect of spellvamp on Katarina compared to the old days.
c) Gunblade isn't worth it. Reasons 1 and 2 contribute to this. The only extra thing Gblade has is the activatable, the slow on which isn't all too useful anymore since the nerf to her ultimate. If you REALLY want an activatable damage nuke, DFG offers a stronger one. (inb4 I get comments on how "cutting a second off of her ult is a buff" again, please note that her old ult dealt slightly more damage after 2 seconds than the new one does. Do the math, don't forget to incorporate Killer Instincts.)
d) Don't invest in CDR. It's a bad stat on her due to Voracity.
e) You should focus on proccing voracity as much and as fast as possible. This is Kat's main damage amplification tool, and it's the main thing that separates her from other champions. WIth new Kat, this pretty much means getting AP/Mpen is your primary goal, as damage is the only thing you offer to your team. The secondary thing you need is defence, cause living longer means more damage.
f) DO NOT get Rylai. It was a bad item on old Kat, and it got nerfed even harder on new Kat. It's just not worth the cost. You're better off just getting a giant's belt and flat AP if you really need the tankyness. As for the slow: it wasn't overly useful on old Kat due to her being a full out burst assassin rather than a "stick to a target and chase" assassin (like Akali is more or less); and it's even worse on new Kat due to the BB changes.

Summarizing: Invest in pure raw damage as much as you can muster. Sorc shoes are the only boots that really make sense. As for items, AP vs Mpen is a rough discussion and it's situational, as with any champion.
Agreed ^^ You understand Kat very well and I remember you from the guide you made ;D Id highly advise any Katarina platers to take this person's advice.


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Amoc

Senior Member

10-09-2012

I'd agree with pretty much all of that as well, although I still think revolver is an important item for her in certain matchups. Even with the aoe spell vamp problem, it still provides enough sustain to keep you in lane when you're eating the occasional harrass.

I think the buy order should always be:

Boots + 3
Kage's (and/or revolver if necessary)
Boots2
Rabadon's

Rabadon's is by far the most important item in her kit at this point. It gives you the burst you need to proc your voracity over and over and makes Kat a beast through mid game.

Whatever you do though, please don't rush DFG before Rabadon's. Nobody has enough HP at this point in the game to make it as effective as it should be, and without the SP from Rabadon's it's not going to be doing a high enough burst %.


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Ur little sister

Senior Member

10-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by xMugix View Post
Agreed ^^ You understand Kat very well and I remember you from the guide you made ;D Id highly advise any Katarina platers to take this person's advice.
Thank you.

Honestly, maybe I should mention I quit playing her completely like a good month after the rework. I just can't enjoy her anymore... I'm also on a 100% win rating against Katarina's in mid lane so far... I might understand her a bit too well... (I still don't understand how a new Kat can ever perform decently against a player who knows her through and though... Which is one of the main things I hate about her: she can be countered by playstyle adjustments SO hard :s)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amoc
Rabadon's is by far the most important item in her kit at this point. It gives you the burst you need to proc your voracity over and over and makes Kat a beast through mid game.

Whatever you do though, please don't rush DFG before Rabadon's. Nobody has enough HP at this point in the game to make it as effective as it should be, and without the SP from Rabadon's it's not going to be doing a high enough burst %.
Agreed with this part. As for the spellvamp: that only works when your opponent is playing badly. In which case you're still better off with getting a ton of AP and snowballing out of control fast. The thing with revolver is that you're investing a slot and 330 gold (= over 9 health pots) into effectively 4% spellvamp. This means that you have to deal 33.750 damage after all reductions (MR and the BB on bounce reduction) to do better than just buying health pots. Taking into account the fact that the AP you get from revolver comes from 2 amp tomes, and expensive items give discounts on stats (4 amp tomes = 1740g, 2 blasting wands = 1720g, 1 large rod = 1600g. They all give the same amount of AP), you see that these numbers are even a understatement.

Oh, and pots are safe to use. Spellvamping with new Kat means you need to blast your skills on ennemy minions. Which requires getting close to them for W. This is the "only if your opponent plays badly" part: good opponents will play agressive on you when you try to farm. (Because as a melee farmer, that's one of your big weaknesses.) So the situation is even more grim than the numbers suggest.

I do feel like buying spellvamp is almost purely a remnant from when she had safe and efficiŽnt spellvamp with her old "single target on every bounce" bouncing blade. Killer Instincts also played an underestimated role in this. (The passive bonus damage that everybody keeps forgetting about applied to every bounce, and obviously the ability to negate damage reduction per bounce helped too.)


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Amoc

Senior Member

10-09-2012

You may be right about the spell vamp. I stopped playing LoL for about 2-3 months and only started playing with her after the rework this week. Gunblade was an obvious drop because of the AD ratios falling but the revolver still seemed like it worked. I suppose with BB being considered an aoe and with shunpo not being a nuke anymore, it may not be worth it anymore. I'll try that out for sure.

As far as the changes go, however, I love the new Kat compared to the old. She poops all over a lot of the skillshot mids and with proper positioning and her Q, E, W combo is OUCH. It's a completely different laning experience than before, where you use to sit back and launch W/Q's and have them hit randomly. Now your harrass is risky business, but so much more dangerous. Her teamfight presence is also infinitely better.


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Ur little sister

Senior Member

10-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amoc View Post
You may be right about the spell vamp. I stopped playing LoL for about 2-3 months and only started playing with her after the rework this week. Gunblade was an obvious drop because of the AD ratios falling but the revolver still seemed like it worked. I suppose with BB being considered an aoe and with shunpo not being a nuke anymore, it may not be worth it anymore. I'll try that out for sure.

As far as the changes go, however, I love the new Kat compared to the old. She poops all over a lot of the skillshot mids and with proper positioning and her Q, E, W combo is OUCH. It's a completely different laning experience than before, where you use to sit back and launch W/Q's and have them hit randomly. Now your harrass is risky business, but so much more dangerous. Her teamfight presence is also infinitely better.
Old kat pooped over the skillshot mids too . She even had a shorter Shampoo, ehm, Shunpo cooldown.

You can abuse her laning phase entirely though. But you have to start early. They nerfed her early game massively, and buffed her lategame, so the clue is to abuse the early game and not allow her to farm.

Current meta = push your lane, roam or take wraiths. The reason for the "farmfarmfarm" strategy is that it maximizes your own potential. Thus, you can make the plays and you can carry games. New Kat does amazing against that: she scales so hard into lategame, it's sickening.
However... If you adjust your playstyle to passive ADC-like farming and agressive harassing and trade forcing (focussing on maxing non-skillshots first), you WILL steamwaltz over Kat in the early levels. In almost all matchups, by the time she could normally catch up, she'll be behind by so much CS that she (having no utility) is essentially useless. This strategy WILL cause you to lose some CS in your lane (not nearly as much as Kat will though). But by denying Kat (generally the better scaling champion) of a lot more CS, and baring the fact that you ppb have cc, I feel that you're actually contributing A LOT more to your team than Kat is to hers.
The counterarguements I generally get to this go along the lines of "she'll just roam" or "her jungler can just gank you". However, due to new Kat's design, ALL her spells push the lane. Good positioning on your side can force her into pushing her lane whenever she takes almost any action. This keeps you pretty safe from ganks. You could still get camped and it could be annoying, but that then severely hinders your ennemy's team as well. As for the roaming: keep in mind she'll be underfarmed. Roaming when you're far behind is a big risk, and honestly I've only seen it pay off for an ennemy Kat once. (A game where my entire team kept ignoring every single ping I made. We still won that game cause they finally decided to listen to me and buy GA, cuz that's the most lolzy item in the game against a fed/lategame Kat.)


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Prófessor Oak

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Member

10-09-2012

Don't get hextech anymore since she no longer has AD scaling on Q so you lose poke AD on W is bad you don't need the lifesteal also you don't need to use the slow to get a full ult off


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Katustrawfic

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ur little sister View Post
1)(inb4 I get comments on how "cutting a second off of her ult is a buff" again, please note that her old ult dealt slightly more damage after 2 seconds than the new one does. Do the math, don't forget to incorporate Killer Instincts.)
What I understood from this change is that she throws out the same amount of daggers (10) in a smaller amount of time. It went from 3.33 daggers per second to 5 daggers per second. How is this a nerf? I don't know about the ratios or damage off the top of my head but this change gives the enemy team less team to escape it or interrupt it.


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Ur little sister

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katustrawfic View Post
What I understood from this change is that she throws out the same amount of daggers (10) in a smaller amount of time. It went from 3.33 daggers per second to 5 daggers per second. How is this a nerf? I don't know about the ratios or damage off the top of my head but this change gives the enemy team less team to escape it or interrupt it.
Each individual dagger deals less damage (both base and scaling)
After 2 seconds of channeling, the old ult had dealt slightly more damage (both base and scaling) than the new one.

The ult HAD to be nerfed btw, to make up for the higher damage output from her base skills.

Like I said, you can look up the patch notes, but here are the calculations I made during new Kat's beta for a rank 1 ult:
Old Kat full ult: 580 + 5*AD + 2.5*AP
Old Kat 2s ult: 406 + 3.5*AD + 1.75*AP
New Kat 2s/full ult: 400 + 3*AD + 1.75*AP

It's easy to check that the numbers are equivalent for all ranks of her ult. If you do the calculations yourself, PLEASE don't forget to calculate the old bonus for killer instincts, and the fact that the old stats were listed per dagger and the new ones in total.


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Amoc

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ur little sister View Post
However... If you adjust your playstyle to passive ADC-like farming and agressive harassing and trade forcing (focussing on maxing non-skillshots first), you WILL steamwaltz over Kat in the early levels.
The old Kat struggled in the early levels pretty badly as well so I don't see much different there. Her harrass, as far as I'm concerned, is far superior now after a few levels. The Q- E-W combo hits like a truck and results in a damage reduction and speed buff at the same time. She wins a lot of trades as a result, especially against skill shot champions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ur little sister View Post
As for the roaming: keep in mind she'll be underfarmed. Roaming when you're far behind is a big risk, and honestly I've only seen it pay off for an ennemy Kat once.
Roamers are always underfarmed. A jungle is usually underfarmed. If you can pull it off and manage a surprise the kill and/or assist is worth it. If you've only seen it work once, you probably haven't seen Kat played enough.


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Tanerian

Senior Member

10-10-2012

Does no one prioritize W over Q?

Been having good success with that, makes pushing lanes a breeze.