Initial Honor Results

First Riot Post
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Judge Ruin

Junior Member

10-09-2012

@Lyte

A few games ago, I had an opponent ask me what the emblem I had in the loading screen was. I was honoured (pun intended) to be recognised by the system- however, I hadn't actually noticed the emblem until it was pointed out.
Why are crests not displayed to you in your profile, champ select, or loading screen?


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ardulus25

Senior Member

10-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
This is an interesting question. There's been some studies showing that if a player believes that 'strategy' is necessary to overcome a challenge, he will keep trying after he fails because he believes 'strategy' is something that can be improved upon.

However, if a player believes that 'physical attributes' like speed or actions-per-minute are necessary to overcome a challenge, the player is more likely to quit after the first few failed attempts because 'physical' speed is something that is difficult to improve.

This study doesn't directly map on to your example, but the similarities are interesting to consider. Ultimately, I'd love to be able to design features that reduce the triggers that cause players to go toxic after a negative outcome.
Hey Lyte, thank you so much for answering, I've been trying to get your attention for a while with a thread about just this. To define my question better: if a player is in a game that is perceived as a loss, but has been told that they can mitigate the consequences of the loss by continuing to play their best via positive game play patterns, do you think the player will have a less negative experience, and express less negativity?

I ask because I feel that one of the large contributing factors to player toxicity is a feeling of helplessness when confronted with a string of seemingly avoidable mistakes by the other players on the team.

Edit: I know these are slightly outside the scope of honor at the moment, but I know this question is right up your alleyway, and I feel I may have come up with a creative idea that addresses a problem, and am looking for some theoretical feed back to work with =)


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ArmoredKingyo

Member

10-09-2012

Lyte,

I see that the numbers seem to indicated a positive change in the community attitude, and indeed my games have shown this change as well. What do you think the odds are that these are only short-term changes brought on by the Honor System beginning? Do you think that these changes are sustainable? My fear is that people are all being artificially kind to receive honor, which, while not an awful side effect, doesn't seem like something people will keep up on forever.


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Lyte

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Lead Social Systems Designer

Follow RiotLyte on Twitter

10-09-2012
32 of 66 Riot Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by ardulus25 View Post
Hey Lyte, thank you so much for answering, I've been trying to get your attention for a while with a thread about just this. To define my question better: if a player is in a game that is perceived as a loss, but has been told that they can mitigate the consequences of the loss by continuing to play their best via positive game play patterns, do you think the player will have a less negative experience, and express less negativity?

I ask because I feel that one of the large contributing factors to player toxicity is a feeling of helplessness when confronted with a string of seemingly avoidable mistakes by the other players on the team.
The simple answer is yes. If a player sees evidence that playing their best and staying positive can lead to wins, the feedback is effective in shaping behavior.

I also agree that for the average player, sometimes frustration leads to bursts of toxicity because they feel incapable of affecting the outcomes of their games regardless of whether it's due to cognitive biases or other factors. If this happens repeatedly, it creates a phenomenon called "learned helplessness" where a player might just give up before the game even begins.


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HideyoshiX

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Senior Member

10-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
[LIST][*]As an example, the system caught a player who was reported in 100% of his games after Honor launched, but he also got Honor in nearly every game. This obvious trader was caught.
This specific part of your post bothers me.

In just about every game, there is at least one ass. Whether they openly show it or not.

Chances are, someone who lost their lane to you, or a teammate who reports you just because you're not carrying him on your back, or some other bad reason, you've been reported.

And so, that's what I have a problem with. Being reported in "100% of their games" seems like either

a) proof of what I've stated, which brings me to a second statement momentarily
or
b) a gross over exaggeration.

If there are people reporting you so frequently that in EVERY SINGLE MATCH for a week someone's been reported, then more effort needs to be put into stopping the abuse of the button.

Even the worst, most heinous players who sit there trash talking all match (and everyone's been there, I assure you all) get so frustrated that they spend at least one match completely quiet or muting everyone, which would drop the statistic from 100%.

And in terms of statistics in a situation like this, I consider saying "this guy is toxic in literally all of their games" unfair if he's actually not been in one or two. Especially if we're speaking in the course of a week.

Now that I got that off my chest...Can we get rid of the "refusing to communicate" report option? It seems like I never see anyone getting banned for that, even when I was participating in the Tribunal, despite seeing firsthand in my three thousandish games (on this account alone) that people do this, all it does is get someone pressing the report button.

Also, some of us like to go into a match and mute people that we can tell will be toxic to our concentration and morale. Those will report said person for refusing to communicate when they can't see calls made, and as far as I know (I haven't checked the revamped Tribunal yet) there's no way to see if a player simply muted everyone else.

Also keeping in mind that the mute function is there for a reason, and should never -ever- be a bannable offense if it's construed as "refusing to communicate".

It's a function I, sadly, don't use too often when I should.

Edit: Holy **** Batman, I just saw how long pouring my thoughts out turned out to be.


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CrazyPineapple5

Senior Member

10-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmoredKingyo View Post
Lyte,

I see that the numbers seem to indicated a positive change in the community attitude, and indeed my games have shown this change as well. What do you think the odds are that these are only short-term changes brought on by the Honor System beginning? Do you think that these changes are sustainable? My fear is that people are all being artificially kind to receive honor, which, while not an awful side effect, doesn't seem like something people will keep up on forever.
I agree. It does seem like a "fake" kindness. I just hope it doesn't all go away too soon! I love when the community is nice.


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Dreggon

Senior Member

10-09-2012

Highly unlikely to work, but everything's worth at least one try:

@Lyte: Game?


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ardulus25

Senior Member

10-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
If this happens repeatedly, it creates a phenomenon called "learned helplessness" where a player might just give up before the game even begins.
Yes!!! without a degree in psych I came up with this based on my observations of my own experiences and the player population and touch on it in my idea. Thank you so much for your feed back, I appreciate it hugely because I really respect you and find the work you are doing right now fascinating and awesome. Any possibility I could pitch my idea to you privately?

Edit: by pitch I mean garner feed back on what you think the viability of the idea would be, what the stumbling blocks would be, and if you think the benefits would be appreciable?


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Apoclyptica

Member

10-09-2012

@lyte

Has more honour been recived by players at lvl 30 or levels below. Has this decreased the "toxic environment" as you put it in the lower level of games, or more at the higher levels?
Also if it is at the lower levels, do you think that these players are more likely to keep playing LoL and eventually shun out the trolls currently in lvl 30 games?


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Infinicia

Senior Member

10-09-2012

I was curious Dr. Lyte, I receive roughly 1 honor almost every game. I really want a crest D:

Do you plan to reveal the requirements to unlock crests eventually?