Jungle is almost as bad as support now...

First Riot Post
Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Taliesin

Senior Member

10-09-2012

Still hoping for some red input on this. I was always okay with giving Blue and Red up to the AP/AD carries lategame. Then mid started expecting every Blue after the first one. Okay... I can understand the need for this, I guess. I'll just retire some of the more mana-intensive junglers and build some mana/mana regen on the rest. I'll deal with the loss of xp by invading more.
Then the same mid started taking Wraiths. Not just occasionally, but all the time. That's by far the easiest camp to clear from a time/damage/reward perspective, and it keeps me centralized and not too far from any lane to help. Now it's always gone. Fine. I'll make sure to keep their Wraiths warded and just take those. What's that? Their mid is taking their Wraiths too? Well, **** me. Then mids realized that they could clear the big Wraith and leave the small ones up if they only had a small window between waves. I guess I'm expected to clear that 15g up so they can get the big one next time? Right.
Then tops started roaming more. Wolves and Golems became more scarce. Not a big deal (as it's not as constant as mid and their Wraiths), but it's adding to the pressure. On top of that, bottom lane took a page from their book and starting clearing their own set of Golems and Wolves more regularly. Well, ****. I guess I can just shove their lanes when they shop... NOPE! Holy hell, they're screaming bloody murder at me. Well, back into the empty jungle again I guess.
Finally, ADs have begun expecting early Red buffs. Not the first or the second, but I've had them want the third onward before, and it's getting more common every day.

So what does this leave me with? The first Blue, and the first 2-3 Reds. The first Wraiths, and whatever I can grab when the AP's distracted or has left leftovers (I've had mids actually come over when I'm clearing Wraiths and nuke the big one mid-kill. No explanation. No apology. Nothing). Wolves and Golems are more frequent, but they're also the worst camps in terms of damage, time, and distance. Even then, they're getting cleared by laners more frequently. Whatever I can get by invading (though if it's a buff, one of the laners wants it), though most of their jungle is as picked over as my own.

Beyond that? Whatever kills or assists I can secure in the lanes. Not solo, as I'm generally behind in levels and always behind in gold, but in 2v1 and 3v2 situations. I build 1-3 Gp10 items every game just to survive. I've started playing junglers who can only use 1 Gp10 less often. I buy wards for midlanes who refuse to as they clear my Wraiths over and over. I buy wards for toplane, enemy jungle and Dragon. I'm considering switching my MS Quints over to Gp10. What's the point in moving around fast when there are so few camps to clear? Gold is what I'm starving for. That, and levels. XP masteries? Looking tempting. My jungle page looks just a little more like my support page every day. Games where I'm the same level as our support are becoming more common. I run into an enemy mid or toplane in my jungle and I have to ping them and run like hell until my laners stop farming long enough to come help. They've got 3 levels on me and twice as much gold, no way I'm tangling with them alone.

Somehow, somewhere along the way, I've become a second-tier citizen. I get the scraps laners deem too worthless for their own time. I get threatened with reports and rage-quits when I touch their lane farm. I rely on Gp10 income just to scrape by. Ward purchases are split 45% jungle, 45% support, 10% everyone else. When I gank for a lane and get the killing blow, they complain that I didn't let them have the gold. If I ignore their complaints and play to my own strengths, or argue that I need a specific camp, they rage and sometimes afk, and actually believe themselves justified. When I invade in the hope that somehow their jungle is less barren than my own, if I get caught and killed I'm harassed for feeding.

...

Man, what happened to us?


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

TheMufffinMan

Senior Member

10-09-2012

+1

Would love to hear a red respond to this

Jungling just isn't fun anymore


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

iainB85

Senior Member

10-09-2012

One idea I had in the back of my head (just a concept, not worked out) is a hope for more jungle specific items in the item rework. We already have an item that can proc on hit damage to minions, but what about items that made neutral minions worth more or along that line... making the jungle more profitable to the jungler, and less to laners.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Injusto

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

10-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taliesin View Post
...

Man, what happened to us?
Worlds. That's what happened to us. Laners watch the top teams playing and say "we should do that, take these camps whenever we got time" and do so. The problem is that in real LoL you are playing together with 4 random strangers. Sometimes they even lack basic communication skills!!! However they expect us to play like those janglers in the world stage, you know the ones that have played together as a team for months or years, communicate well and know each other well.

This is real LoL. I main Skarner and whenever I see leftover minions I take them. Someone pinging me to back off? Allow me to inform you that these minions I'm last hitting will be dead anyways before you even return here. Let me at least get some crumbles that you won't even miss. Usually after this little dialogue they leave you in peace.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Taliesin

Senior Member

10-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Injusto View Post
Worlds. That's what happened to us. Laners watch the top teams playing and say "we should do that, take these camps whenever we got time" and do so. The problem is that in real LoL you are playing together with 4 random strangers. Sometimes they even lack basic communication skills!!! However they expect us to play like those janglers in the world stage, you know the ones that have played together as a team for months or years, communicate well and know each other well.

This is real LoL. I main Skarner and whenever I see leftover minions I take them. Someone pinging me to back off? Allow me to inform you that these minions I'm last hitting will be dead anyways before you even return here. Let me at least get some crumbles that you won't even miss. Usually after this little dialogue they leave you in peace.
To be totally honest, I understand perfectly well why the state of the game exists as it is. I just took the opportunity to let off some steam and raise some awareness. Listing my grievances has a way of making them easier to deal with.

You know what really gets me going though? When an AP mid takes every Blue and Wraith camp after the first, yet refuses to go after their Wraiths, ward, and I still manage to accrue more income than them by endgame. That means that this person who I'm sacrificing so much of my income and therefore game impact for lacks even the ability to accrue decent last hits in lane. He's watched tournament play, decided that he needs to be taking jungle farm to be a successful player, and yet doesn't understand the fundamental (and fatal) flaw with not CSing exceptionally in lane. Every time I watch a laner miss a CS I cringe. That little ******* was worth 6 of my little Wraths and you have the gall to come clear Wraiths again after failing to last hit it. You monster.

All humor aside, though, I've actually had laners ragequit on me before for taking their lane CS when they're shopping or dead. No amount of rational explanation or logical thought will get some people to stop finding the most convenient scapegoat for their failure, and the jungler is always convenient.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Ternce

Senior Member

10-09-2012

Let the reign of Jungle Taric begin.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Taliesin

Senior Member

10-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ternce View Post
Let the fabulous reign of Jungle Taric begin.
.


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

iainB85

Senior Member

10-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taliesin View Post
Still hoping for some red input on this. I was always okay with giving Blue and Red up to the AP/AD carries lategame. Then mid started expecting every Blue after the first one. Okay... I can understand the need for this, I guess. I'll just retire some of the more mana-intensive junglers and build some mana/mana regen on the rest. I'll deal with the loss of xp by invading more.
Then the same mid started taking Wraiths. Not just occasionally, but all the time. That's by far the easiest camp to clear from a time/damage/reward perspective, and it keeps me centralized and not too far from any lane to help. Now it's always gone. Fine. I'll make sure to keep their Wraiths warded and just take those. What's that? Their mid is taking their Wraiths too? Well, **** me. Then mids realized that they could clear the big Wraith and leave the small ones up if they only had a small window between waves. I guess I'm expected to clear that 15g up so they can get the big one next time? Right.
Then tops started roaming more. Wolves and Golems became more scarce. Not a big deal (as it's not as constant as mid and their Wraiths), but it's adding to the pressure. On top of that, bottom lane took a page from their book and starting clearing their own set of Golems and Wolves more regularly. Well, ****. I guess I can just shove their lanes when they shop... NOPE! Holy hell, they're screaming bloody murder at me. Well, back into the empty jungle again I guess.
Finally, ADs have begun expecting early Red buffs. Not the first or the second, but I've had them want the third onward before, and it's getting more common every day.

So what does this leave me with? The first Blue, and the first 2-3 Reds. The first Wraiths, and whatever I can grab when the AP's distracted or has left leftovers (I've had mids actually come over when I'm clearing Wraiths and nuke the big one mid-kill. No explanation. No apology. Nothing). Wolves and Golems are more frequent, but they're also the worst camps in terms of damage, time, and distance. Even then, they're getting cleared by laners more frequently. Whatever I can get by invading (though if it's a buff, one of the laners wants it), though most of their jungle is as picked over as my own.

Beyond that? Whatever kills or assists I can secure in the lanes. Not solo, as I'm generally behind in levels and always behind in gold, but in 2v1 and 3v2 situations. I build 1-3 Gp10 items every game just to survive. I've started playing junglers who can only use 1 Gp10 less often. I buy wards for midlanes who refuse to as they clear my Wraiths over and over. I buy wards for toplane, enemy jungle and Dragon. I'm considering switching my MS Quints over to Gp10. What's the point in moving around fast when there are so few camps to clear? Gold is what I'm starving for. That, and levels. XP masteries? Looking tempting. My jungle page looks just a little more like my support page every day. Games where I'm the same level as our support are becoming more common. I run into an enemy mid or toplane in my jungle and I have to ping them and run like hell until my laners stop farming long enough to come help. They've got 3 levels on me and twice as much gold, no way I'm tangling with them alone.

Somehow, somewhere along the way, I've become a second-tier citizen. I get the scraps laners deem too worthless for their own time. I get threatened with reports and rage-quits when I touch their lane farm. I rely on Gp10 income just to scrape by. Ward purchases are split 45% jungle, 45% support, 10% everyone else. When I gank for a lane and get the killing blow, they complain that I didn't let them have the gold. If I ignore their complaints and play to my own strengths, or argue that I need a specific camp, they rage and sometimes afk, and actually believe themselves justified. When I invade in the hope that somehow their jungle is less barren than my own, if I get caught and killed I'm harassed for feeding.

...

Man, what happened to us?
Quoted for truth!


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

Injusto

This user has referred a friend to League of Legends, click for more information

Senior Member

10-09-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taliesin View Post
All humor aside, though, I've actually had laners ragequit on me before for taking their lane CS when they're shopping or dead. No amount of rational explanation or logical thought will get some people to stop finding the most convenient scapegoat for their failure, and the jungler is always convenient.
I know that feel bro. Also, you forgot to add the support in the list of scapegoats.

My gawd I have to reevaluate my LoL life and stop jungling or supporting (my other main role). Maybe it's time to get that Darius and learn to solo top properly with him... XD


Comment below rating threshold, click here to show it.

xxChronicxxx

Senior Member

10-09-2012

Good topic riot needs to address in season 3.