Theorycraft Season 3 Items

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ICE Gang Kevren

Senior Member

10-07-2012

getting gold from doing nothing is a lil broken


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Ginko

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fish n Chicks View Post
Wards/oracle might get nerfed or modified in some way. After the public reaction to passive "ward hunting" matches, it'd be stupid to not change anything about it.
I think wards and oracles are in a great place right now actually. The only thing I could see them changing is the max number of wards you can hold in a slot. Say they nerfed it down to 3. It would force the team to buy wards instead of delegating one support to be a gold, ward, and babysitting *****. This would yet again encourage interesting team compositions where the whole team is contributing in similar ways.

I know the whole team purchases wards in higher elo, but I think it would be healthy for lower players to be like "I'm full on items." The team would either die or have to contribute. I think that's very fair play.


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Quartaroy

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Senior Member

10-07-2012

More AD caster items for champions that rely on AD, but not Auto attacks as much.

Champions like Riven, Talon, and Pantheon come to mind. Items that have CDR and AD would be a boon to these champions, as CDR is incredibly difficult to find for them.


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Ginko

Senior Member

10-07-2012

I think AD caster items would blur the roles too much. Having AD champs not rely on auto attacks can potentially null the role of an AP.

I think the brutalizer gets purchased a lot (ad, cdr, armor pen) but I agree it should have more options than a ghostblade.


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Mister Sandbag

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by NE0BLAST View Post
getting gold from doing nothing is a lil broken
No it isn't.

You are sacrificing potential power in order to get a slight monetary gain. Gp10 items are super overrated by most people. The only reason you really see them every game is because support/jungle don't have access to enough money without buying them. A lot of the Asian teams almost completely forgo them unless they're planning on building a dfg/randuin's/etc. in the near future.

More actives + AD caster items + more variety in starting items are what I would like to see.


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Ginko

Senior Member

10-07-2012

If 2-4 players (jungler, support, top, mid) get gp10 items in any given game then they're not really "overrated".

Item progression takes far too long. Going from 2 gp10 & boots --> Aegis is a lot better than going straight from boots --> Aegis. Basically, they're far too strong early game items to also have such a strong passive.

Idk, I think they are going to have some major revamps with gold in terms of masteries, items, and maybe even runes.


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Xyltin

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oh nice View Post
I believe they're going to nerf the Gold per 10 metagame. I feel there will be a mastery that allows supports to get a fraction of the gold gold if they hit a minion (assist, not last hit). This will encourage pushing, it might open doors for tri-lane, active supports that don't just sit around, etc. I think gold items will still exist but will be nerfed in stats.

Heart of Aluminum
Ingenuine Philospher's Stone
Kage's Back-up Pick
Avarice Butter Knife

I also think they are going to change up infinite edge, rabadon's death cap, ghostblade, and a few other items. I'm not sure what they'll change, but that's what this thread is for. Post your predictions and wishes. inb4 minimap item
There are 2 things about the 0 CS meta that will probably change:
- the ADC scaling will go down a bit (IE and some base stats like AS probably), but their survivability will go up instead (making them better in solo lanes).
=> ADC will still be the best scaling role, but not as much as now
- Supports may get an AP scaling or a new stats, what may allow them to scale their utility. Think about Nunu who needs AP to get his slow speed up (to a max number). That support Nunu now needs to take AP items to give utility. Same with some other support champs, making their utility scale less with ranks but also with AP.
Another example would be Sonas auras. Think about Q getting reduced to 4/6/8/10/12 AD/AP and now every 100 AP increases the aura strength by 4. At 200 AP she will be back at the old value, but 200 AP is a lot for a supporter in the current meta.
=> Supports need items (probably AP) to get enough late game utility. That will make some other champs like GP also better supporters while also removing the 0 CS meta (at least for the first mins till the support got enough money for 3 g/10 items).


You still want a support champ to not farm as much mid and late game, and that is actually ok. But the early game should be open to farm for everybody.
Also removing the g/10 runes and mastery should achieve this.
G/10 items are good for the support role and should exists for them (still very strong items and could get nerfed). But they are bad for all other roles (not bad, but boring and not really fun to play with or against such items).

At the same time you don't want to have your ADC farm all the time. Maybe you want to have a strong early game ADC (Cait) but your main carry should be the AP champ (one that scales pretty well).


Some concrete ways to change ADC:
- IE crit dmg down from 250% to 220% (AD or crit chance increased instead or price reduced), no more crit dmg mastery (remade to something else). Also other item changes.
- reduce base AS. They don't need it early on for laning that much, but it allows them to scale into late game pretty hard. Little lower base AS will make AS items more important early for them.
- stronger early game skills (if needed).
- bit more HP (they shouldn't drop at lvl 6 cause of one combo, especially when they are weaker in other phases of the game after the other changes).
- Change to Dorans blade: 2-3 HP per AA instead of 3% life steal (that will probably come, as Xyph said that Dorans % life steal is still very strong late game and the item should not be a good early game choice that also supports your late game that much)


But I'm more curious about the top lane changes and the rune and mastery changes.

Riot is probably going to nerf the flat Armor runes a bit, what will make physical champs a bit stronger (ADC early game, too).
They are going to nerf most top lane bruisers (sustain through skills or HP reg, some early game dmg or CDs).
Nerfing defensive masteries (-2 dmg from creeps and monsters and -2 dmg are going to get changed)


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Quartaroy

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Senior Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oh nice View Post
I think AD caster items would blur the roles too much. Having AD champs not rely on auto attacks can potentially null the role of an AP.

I think the brutalizer gets purchased a lot (ad, cdr, armor pen) but I agree it should have more options than a ghostblade.
You would still need AP on the team, less the enemy build armor and nullify your entire team.

It's not like AD Casters would magically replace mid. They would likely be a swap out with the bruisers top, or the jungler.


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Ginko

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xyltin View Post
There are 2 things about the 0 CS meta that will probably change:
- the ADC scaling will go down a bit (IE and some base stats like AS probably), but their survivability will go up instead (making them better in solo lanes).
=> ADC will still be the best scaling role, but not as much as now
- Supports may get an AP scaling or a new stats, what may allow them to scale their utility. Think about Nunu who needs AP to get his slow speed up (to a max number). That support Nunu now needs to take AP items to give utility. Same with some other support champs, making their utility scale less with ranks but also with AP.
Another example would be Sonas auras. Think about Q getting reduced to 4/6/8/10/12 AD/AP and now every 100 AP increases the aura strength by 4. At 200 AP she will be back at the old value, but 200 AP is a lot for a supporter in the current meta.
=> Supports need items (probably AP) to get enough late game utility. That will make some other champs like GP also better supporters while also removing the 0 CS meta (at least for the first mins till the support got enough money for 3 g/10 items).


You still want a support champ to not farm as much mid and late game, and that is actually ok. But the early game should be open to farm for everybody.
Also removing the g/10 runes and mastery should achieve this.
G/10 items are good for the support role and should exists for them (still very strong items and could get nerfed). But they are bad for all other roles (not bad, but boring and not really fun to play with or against such items).

At the same time you don't want to have your ADC farm all the time. Maybe you want to have a strong early game ADC (Cait) but your main carry should be the AP champ (one that scales pretty well).
I can appreciate some of the ideas, but that is really risky. If they completely overhaul the way skill progression works (in terms of CC and auras), it could really alienate some of the players who are expecting an obvious increase in power when they stat into a skill.

It could potentially take away from leveling. I think skill progression feels really good right now. When I put a stat into a point, I can immediately feel the difference and become satisfied with the choice over another. If stat scaling is the big determining factor on skills, then allocating a stat wouldn't be the same.


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chaser676

Senior Member

10-07-2012

Bump