@Riot A serious discussion about gender. Please read

First Riot Post
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bongofrog

Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adumbro Deus View Post
You don't seem to be understanding what I'm getting at.

We have a large and growing female audience already, they should be marketed to as well from a business standpoint and it would also assist in making the culture of the game less prone to discourage women from becoming highly invested in it.

In light of this, what I'm arguing for is:

1. Limit sexualization of female champs to characters it's appropriate for, fiora for example, her broken back pose makes no sense whatsoever. This is regardless of state of dress of the champ.

2. More variety in the female champs in terms of body types, backstories, etc.

3. More male characters where sexualization fits with their character and then sexualize them. We currently only have 1 male sexualized champ for one of his skins, tango TF.

Now why didn't you just say that to begin with? =)

Bertha: Grogas' Sister.

and take off that stupid tarics armor and put him in spandex where he belongs. A guy that into gems is not going to be running around in armor....hes going to be a dance competition wearing a chip'n dales banana hammock.

lil bit of sarcasm there.

but I see no problem with your requests.

Just have to say one thing...Sivir; DAT ****!!


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Adumbro Deus

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10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fate Ninja View Post
According to the third wave feminism movement, being sexy can be an empowering thing for females.

Get over it.
Sexy not sexually objectified.

That's sort of the problem, the female characters that are an issue are that way because they're put in sexually submissive poses. Third wave feminism's problem has always been that it gets interpreted by guys to mean that sexual objectification of women is somehow empowering.


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Rachel

Member

10-06-2012

I think the big issue with girls playing this game is that a lot of them try to use gender to an advantage, which causes the behavior of the people they get matched with. Regardless of how someone acts it's a stereotype that is accurate in too many cases. If you rise to the occasion instead of acting like a ***** when a dude tries to troll you, chances are you'll get some street cred and the discrimination will lessen. Especially if you destroy them. Though there are plenty of games where not a word is said about my name or simply just "wow original name nice."
I think OP made an intelligent point about sexualized champions. I personally don't have a real problem with them, but diversity could be fun.


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Adumbro Deus

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10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by bongofrog View Post
Now why didn't you just say that to begin with? =)

Bertha: Grogas' Sister.

and take off that stupid tarics armor and put him in spandex where he belongs. A guy that into gems is not going to be running around in armor....hes going to be a dance competition wearing a chip'n dales banana hammock.

lil bit of sarcasm there.

but I see no problem with your requests.

Just have to say one thing...Sivir; DAT ****!!
lol, it's what I've been arguing for since the beginning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lemonchief View Post
@ OP: As a male feminist (incoming downvotes) I would honestly like to see more female champions like Diana who, while not unattractive, are not sexual objects. For most female champions, I simply buy the skin that is most appealing to me and more often than not, that skin has the most clothing on it. I'm not a prude and I absolutely appreciate the female form, but sometimes it's hard to take MF seriously as a bad-ass bounty hunter when she looks like a stripper. Or Sejuani as a merciless bad-ass bent on taking over the throne, when she is wearing a bikini (and a helmet).

With all of this being said, I can honestly say that the only skins that offend me are battle bunny Riven, cowgirl Miss Fortune, and Sheriff Caitlyn. Riven is an absolute bad ass. She chose exile and was the example of Noxus before that. She holds an enormous sword with one hand. And she's a playboy bunny? The other two skins are offensive because....well...just look at them.

I don't have a problem with a female character being flirty or sexualized, so long as it fits with their character, like Cassiopeia (who was a temptress) or Ahri (also a temptress....in a different sense), but it gets stale to see every character look like a temptress, especially when it doesn't make any sense for their character.
Congrats for illustrating why "male feminist" is such downvote fodder.

There is nothing sexualized about sejuani, limited clothing =/= sexualization, it's about pose and characterization.

So you get downvoted by neckbeards who dislike any endorsement of feminism, and also by women who consider equating limited clothing with sexualization basically sl*t-shaming.


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Rachel

Member

10-06-2012

If you're not a feminist (i.e. a person who believes females should have the same rights as males) you have issues. Everyone should be a feminist.


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NidaKat

Senior Member

10-06-2012

idk nidalee was raised by cougars. I accept that

Soraka isn't human. clothing choice is complete irrelevant, even if the new artist made sure to give her a the fattest ass in league.
I don't know I just play the game. People spend too much time thinking and joking about *** it's become second nature and a huge issue with everything that comes around.

In my opinion the "sexualization" perfectly fits NA's magazine reading and dressing women. They dress like this all the damn time. Especially where I live.

BUT i also would love to see more female of diverse properties and themes, feels, etc.


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Rachel

Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by lemonchief View Post
@ OP: As a male feminist (incoming downvotes) I would honestly like to see more female champions like Diana who, while not unattractive, are not sexual objects. For most female champions, I simply buy the skin that is most appealing to me and more often than not, that skin has the most clothing on it. I'm not a prude and I absolutely appreciate the female form, but sometimes it's hard to take MF seriously as a bad-ass bounty hunter when she looks like a stripper. Or Sejuani as a merciless bad-ass bent on taking over the throne, when she is wearing a bikini (and a helmet).

With all of this being said, I can honestly say that the only skins that offend me are battle bunny Riven, cowgirl Miss Fortune, and Sheriff Caitlyn. Riven is an absolute bad ass. She chose exile and was the example of Noxus before that. She holds an enormous sword with one hand. And she's a playboy bunny? The other two skins are offensive because....well...just look at them.

I don't have a problem with a female character being flirty or sexualized, so long as it fits with their character, like Cassiopeia (who was a temptress) or Ahri (also a temptress....in a different sense), but it gets stale to see every character look like a temptress, especially when it doesn't make any sense for their character.
I agree with keeping the sexiness in theme. That's what everything is about.
Same goes for other things: people want varied body types, there should be a reason why the new champion would be overweight/ripped.
I understand the Riven skin, it was fanmade and well-recieved, and riven "hops" so having a fun unrelated skin is okay. I think sheriff caitlyn is a bit absurd though. Does she really go to work wearing that? Where does she work again....?


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Ayrona

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Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by bongofrog View Post
So what you are saying is that Riot needs to suppress natural male urges? If you will Eons upon eons of evolutionary development?

I am a Male. I am married and I have 2 girls. A 5 year old, and A 3 year old. I would kill a man with my bare hands in the most violent of ways if someone touched one of them in an inapproprate manner. HOWEVER I also understand that someday just as i did my wife, will find one of them sexually appealing. NOT because men are pigs, and perverts, but because that is how we men are wired.

The sexy skins sell. The nuns don't.

that said if I ever get akali will not ever the the sexy nurse skin because its retarded.

If you must have an example in history Males have often gone to war naked. Or wearing not much more than a loin cloth.

sure have your discussion, but make a stand on something already. What do you want riot to do about it? make a nun skin? make an islam friendly version of the game?
make all the champs male or overly steroidal she-males?

Its a game. A game where little girls are equal to Spartans. Just move on.
No one is saying having a sexually appealing woman is bad. I don't think you quite understood the argument. The problem is the lack of diversity; the fact that as a whole men are portrayed as strong but women are portrayed as sexy, and with the same exact body.

And yeah, sexy skins sell. No one is arguing against that or saying that it is a bad thing, so your points are not relevant to the argument.
Simply, the complaint is a combination of:
a) The male counterparts of the sexy skins are professional skins
b) There are no counterparts for men where the sole purpose of the skin is fan service, which is the case for the most of the female skins.
c) All women that are portrayed as sexy have the same exact body type

I mean, it is fairly clear that the argument is that the ideals for genders are extremely different and that it makes many people uncomfortable. No one is arguing that sexy skins are bad inherently, so why are so many people arguing against this point and completely ignoring the bigger picture? Could you all at least read the original post?

Also, what they want Riot to do about it is also pretty clear given the argument: There is not enough diversity, so it would directly follow that including more diversity in options is exactly what they want.

Mainly, what could be done about it:
a) More diversity in female champion design, like male champions have
b) Sexy skins for the men of league
c) More cool/strong skins for women

Notice how NONE of these options are saying get rid of sexy skins from the game?


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Phyrexia

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Senior Member

10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel View Post
If you're not a feminist (i.e. a person who believes females should have the same rights as males) you have issues. Everyone should be a feminist.
Why not advocate for Equalism and/or Humanism? Seems to be a much better cause then just focusing on Feminism, which seems to push more for the pendulum to swing in their favor rather than have things actually be even.


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Adumbro Deus

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10-06-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachel View Post
If you're not a feminist (i.e. a person who believes females should have the same rights as males) you have issues. Everyone should be a feminist.
Obviously, I'm not saying that guys shouldn't be feminists, but if you wanna associate yourself with the movement you need to understand what the actual issues facing women (and frankly men as well) because of gender roles are.


There is nothing more depressing then a self-professed feminist participating in sl*t-shaming.