AP Gragas, Highest Skill Cap Champ

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Rhinocerous

Member

07-20-2012

Hey guys,

I wanted to set some things straight. There has been a lot of debate regarding this, and I have decided to put forth my argument for why AP Gragas is the highest skill cap champ in the game.

Let's talk skillshots. But not in the conventional way. Indeed Gragas has 3 skillshots, including his ultimate with the ability to push enemies towards or away. With deeper consideration, the only skillshot a good Gragas player can use without thinking about it is his Q (the barrel), because there are no consequences other than losing mana for a missed barrel.

But for his other two skillshots, they have severe consequences. Whenever Gragas uses his e, or his bodyslam, there can be extremely bad consequences. An aggressive body slam into the other mid can put you completely out of position, and in team fights, the same occurs. Body slam is a huge vulnerability, and is extremely dangerous to use because it puts Gragas into the enemy's range. Only when escaping or dodging does E not have any real consequences, and is a great skill. Now, his ultimate is the extremely high skill cap ability. It has the ability to make or break a team fight. A key target can be either blasted away from the team, or knocked into Gragas' own team. Also considering the fact that it can miss, this is a huge deal. I'd argue that no Gragas hits all of his ults perfectly in a game, because this is the hardest skill to aim, CONSIDERING so many champs in this game have a quick movement ability that can completely offset the ultimate. Also a golden opportunity can become deadly, as an ultimate that pushes their tanks into your team.. I've seen it happen. It is like a blitzcrank pull of amumu. The team fight is lost.

Because he has such consequences for his abilities, he is the highest skill cap champ.

For those of you who say Anivia is the hardest.. With blue buff she has to make very little decisions, its just spam ultimate, q as needed, w and e as needed. Yes, the wall is really cool and it takes skill to aim that, but there is not as devastating a consequence for screwing it up, compared to body slam. Anivia as well as other ap mids do not need to make decisions, they simply need to spam abilities to win the game. This is why Gragas takes the throne for the highest skill champ in the game.

Thoughts?


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Treza

Senior Member

07-20-2012

skill shots doesnt necessarily equate to a ton of skill... shaco has no skillshots and id say he takes the most skill to play, lee sin is another good candidate too same with anivia

lee sin and shaco just have so much mobility and options available.. a well played shaco can win the game through early steam rolling and anivia im just biased because its my main but a well placed wall can decide a team fight save team members secure kills and sometimes its not easy to place either since the corners will always form a triangle with yourself. then youve got the q which can turn a slightly over extended player into a great team fight initiation and then youve got the ult and if you manage to put it into the right spot thats another deciding factor assuming the enemy team isnt fed.

skill shots obviously take some skill but theyre not hard at all to master. positioning and awareness is where the skill really lies at least in my opinion

in short i completely disagree and would say for starters that despite what you said about anivia i would put her above gragas as far as skill goes, but like i already said im biased. and i would put shaco the highest! lee sin somewhere around the same area as anivia. the thing about anivia is her damage relies so heavily on hitting the q (atleast early) that if you arent good at aiming and anticipating where your enemies will be, you just wont get kills ever because ult e combo while easier is not enough. now once youve mastered the q, now you must start mastering the full power of the q by hitting them with the cast and then activating the q burst to get the freeze and hit them again


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Quick Rawr

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Senior Member

07-20-2012

He has 2 AoE skill shots, one with a timer if he missed, an escape and a buff that requires no mana. I think a lot of AP casters in general require a lot of skill to be AMAZING, but I don't think there's anything specific that sets Gragas apart in a more difficult tier.


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M0nkeyM4n

Senior Member

07-20-2012

If you are basing skill caps on skill shots than i think lux would have you beat. All her spells are skill shots and takes a lot more concentration than tossing a barrel or two.

Q-main skill shot and bind
W-her shield but still a skill shot. You can save reammates and turn fights around with one shield.
E- skillshot just like gargas
R- super skillshot. I have made some amazing snipes in the dark with ult but also have missed when they are literally right infront of me


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Kreyni

Senior Member

07-20-2012

Janna has a CC skillshot that kills your team in a fight if not landed correctly, and a Gragas-like Ultimate. Her shield requires exact timing and high reflexes.

Janna is now the highest skillcap champion. Discuss.

Edit: Here, an OT response.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhinocerous View Post
-snip-

But for his other two skillshots, they have severe consequences. Whenever Gragas uses his e, or his bodyslam, there can be extremely bad consequences. An aggressive body slam into the other mid can put you completely out of position, and in team fights, the same occurs. Body slam is a huge vulnerability, and is extremely dangerous to use because it puts Gragas into the enemy's range. Only when escaping or dodging does E not have any real consequences, and is a great skill.

So, uhh, any Dash makes a high skillcap champion? I see Corki's Valkyrie, Nautilus' Dredge Line, Renekton's Slice and Dice, Sejuani's Arctic Assault, Shen's Shadow Dash, Tryndamere's Spinning Slash, and the list goes on. You cannot expect me to believe Tryndamere is a high skillcap champ.

Now, his ultimate is the extremely high skill cap ability. It has the ability to make or break a team fight. A key target can be either blasted away from the team, or knocked into Gragas' own team. Also considering the fact that it can miss, this is a huge deal. I'd argue that no Gragas hits all of his ults perfectly in a game, because this is the hardest skill to aim, CONSIDERING so many champs in this game have a quick movement ability that can completely offset the ultimate. Also a golden opportunity can become deadly, as an ultimate that pushes their tanks into your team.. I've seen it happen. It is like a blitzcrank pull of amumu. The team fight is lost.

Gragas' ultimate changes teamfights, but many other ones do as well. Janna's Monsoon, Sona's Crescendo, Soraka's Wish, Galio's Idol of Durand, Fiddlestick's lulcawcawcawstorm, Brand's Pyroclasm, and so on. Having a teamfight-changing ultimate (Usually an AoE) does not give your champion a high skillcap.

Because he has such consequences for his abilities, he is the highest skill cap champ.

Yeah, like waiting 7 or 90 seconds. Some of the examples provided above have a similar effect and some of them a longer cooldown.

For those of you who say Anivia is the hardest.. With blue buff she has to make very little decisions, its just spam ultimate, q as needed, w and e as needed. Yes, the wall is really cool and it takes skill to aim that, but there is not as devastating a consequence for screwing it up, compared to body slam. Anivia as well as other ap mids do not need to make decisions, they simply need to spam abilities to win the game. This is why Gragas takes the throne for the highest skill champ in the game.

Spam barrels, W when lom, R+Q+Ignite+E on a low enemy for the kill.


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mambawarrior

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Member

07-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kreyni View Post
Janna has a CC skillshot that kills your team in a fight if not landed correctly, and a Gragas-like Ultimate. Her shield requires exact timing and high reflexes.

Janna is now the highest skillcap champion. Discuss.

Edit: Here, an OT response.
Trynd is a high skillcap champ.
try him and see.
I don't like Trynd, but I respect Trynd players if they beat me.


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Kreyni

Senior Member

07-20-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by mambawarrior View Post
Trynd is a high skillcap champ.
try him and see.
I don't like Trynd, but I respect Trynd players if they beat me.
Played him on a friend's account (Not gonna buy him).

Went the standard Greaves+2 Doran's. then rushed a PD. Since nobody could escape me, I was snowballing pretty hard, rushed an IE pretty fast. Then came another PD, then a BT. At that point spinning into someone, mocking them, then right-clicking, pressing R if needed was a guaranteed kill. Snowballed hard, went like 30/6 or something. (The 6 was from pre-6 and well timed CC under turret).


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WhiteChocolate57

Junior Member

07-20-2012

Do what I do topic creator and build him tanky (RoA, possibly Rylai's) so I can aim the Q/ultimate without worrying about losing my head in a teamfight.
EDIT:And if you're glass cannon building, use the ultimate as a finisher.


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Quensu

Member

10-05-2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by mambawarrior View Post
Trynd is a high skillcap champ.
try him and see.
I don't like Trynd, but I respect Trynd players if they beat me.
Arguably the lowest skill cap champion in LoL, you will never see a Tryndamere in competitive ranked.


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Fiveofswords

Senior Member

10-05-2012

well i would never think anivia is the hardest...i can see gragas being difficult to learn...but i wouldtn call him the hardest. Having some range does make a lot of decisions easier And im not sure i would consider his barrel thing a skillshot...you jsut plant it in the area u want aoe....

there are 'bad' consequences for other champs in exactly the same way you tihnk bodyslam has bad consequence...if brand misses his q stun for example...its gonna be on cd he wont get another for wuite a while...that will kill him.


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